The Light Mission Community-Forum Archives

Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.

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~ February - Page 1 ~

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Subject: todays ray

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 08:43:22 -0800

Good Morning:

E.J., you talk about thoughts...one is when thoughts are reactive and the other is when we may draw upon a thought to aid us in the moment. Can you give an example of this, in order to clarify this for me.

Subject: on 'Dilemma'

From: "J B" <jb789@hotmail.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:37:10 +0100

Hello and thanks to all for your replies to my post on 'Dilemma'.

A practical thing first: Since the forum's Archive page is not structured in the ussual email-list model, where you can selsct a post and choose 'REPLY', and since _not all_ replies have been delivered to my email-address (?), I suppose the way to reply, is to first look at the archive, then copy the email-adr. of the sender and then go back to my own email-page and send from there. Is that correct ?

Apart from this, does anyone know whether the page-owner has ever considered to change the forum-list to the ussual email-list format.. like at groups.yahoo.com f.ex. ? It would also make it easier to access a mail posted at the end of the month.

Gary has written: >No one can give you "advise" on what to do, nor should one.

I feel this is a very sane point.

>In reading your post, for which thank you for sharing, I sense that you >have already answered your own question. As it has been mentioned here in >the Oasis many times before, that we can find the answer within the >question.

Yes, I'd better look into my question.

>Ask yourself what is your priority and see what answers you get.

Here I doubt whether I can trust my priority-answers. Regardless whether I'd say 'Enlightenment' or a less 'noble' one. Often I've seen that behind both types of pririties, can hide a terribly separative and fiery ego.

>Relationships are formed at different levels and each person must decide >the level for them self. I (for myself) look at what the relationship will >do for the parties concerned. Will it enhance our life and add to it, or >detract! Also, is this a dependency need relationship?

It is, I feel dependency from her side. Personally I feel I have not any objects of desire left, apart from the needs of clothes/food/shelter and occasional goo/conscious human company. Apart from these, only one...: the living of what-is and the perfume of Being, which though not established in 'it', it has a strong pull on me/mu 'gut'. As for sex-need, that's also petered out. When it happens can be enjoyable, but it does generate loss of energy and perceptual sensitivity, as metioned. One might wonder: 'why then move ?'. Well, (and that I've heard is a no-no) partly because she has a deep desire for it, and who knows, since she is new to the enquiry into the what-is, she might benefit by being with me. To this some have said 'do Not do it for -her, live -your life'. Well, that sounds/feels great, but what's wrong with offering one's presence, in spite of not wanting anything out of it, and also perhaps finding it not exctly 'ecstatic' in her presence ?! "will it enhance life, add to it or detract ?" .. well, I am not quite sure what enhance/detract from life, is .. (?!). I hope you do not think that I am trying to indulge in counter-arguing or playing with words,.. but I do have to question. I have seen a 'great philosophy of liberation' .. such as 'you do your thing and I'll do mine..', being used in rather cruel and self/ego-centered and narcisistic ways, in the name of 'truth/freedom' and a more pleasurable/easy life. - But what's -that got to do with dwelling on what-is-as-is or causeless joy/love ?

Well anyway, since I cannot say I have the 'answer', feedback would be welcome.

Subject: Re: where is

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:31:41 -0800

Thankyou Gary: You are showing me much....and I am so glad you are here!

Subject: re: dilemma

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:49:00 -0800

Hi J.B.: My dilemma today, was learning and remembering how to spell the word...tee hee. I'm glad you came to join us and hope you stick around. I hope that you keep on asking questions and sharing.

Subject: where is

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:48:49 -0800

I don't hear much as to what changes occur in others after coming here. It seems to me that each day I read a ray...a small change occurs in my perceptions and insightings. Now it is only in the applying of it that real change takes place. Sometimes I stop myself from reacting when I see it is not responding to someone. Sometimes I listen without speaking. Sometimes I am able to see that my emotions are not getting strung out, tugged or elicited...and that I am only quietly watching what is taking place with a smile rather than a tear which use to be the case.

While others around me are going through the emotional wringers and getting on the band wagon about one thing or another...i am recognizing how it use to be me and now it is only sometimes me doing the dramas and reactions. Now when I feel a reaction, and even react inside, I ask myself what is the conditioning that is working itself out upon this moment...where is the trap that i just stepped on.

Subject: Re: on 'Dilemma'

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 02:06:31 GMT

Greetings JB, you wrote: ->A practical thing first: ->Since the forum's Archive page is not structured in the ussual email-list ->model, where you can selsct a post and choose 'REPLY', and since _not all_ ->replies have been delivered to my email-address (?), I suppose the way to ->reply, is to first look at the archive, then copy the email-adr. of the ->sender and then go back to my own email-page and send from there. Is that ->correct ?

Though the Mission Of Light Community E-Mail Discussion List Archives are not in the so called "usual model", all you have to do is hit the reply button just like "usual" to reply to a message. The server seemed to be going over some bumps in the road for a while there but I think all is back to "usual" again. So the list's functionality is the very same as the free advertising lists, except this one has no advertising. No advertising because it is sponsored by Light Mission as one of it's Services for those Awakening who do not want to contend with the advertising and bickering and religious proselytizing on most other lists. So please enjoy and share. And, as I hear, you do not have to worry about stepping on the Goddess's mushrooms..... YET.

->Apart from this, does anyone know whether the page-owner has ever considered ->to change the forum-list to the ussual email-list format.. like at ->groups.yahoo.com f.ex. ? It would also make it easier to access a mail ->posted at the end of the month.

Explained above {8->

Subject: Re: where is

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:54:25 -0700

Hi Jacquie! Thanks for sharing .... and each time that you do, I find it most beneficial since it reminds me to look at where I am. Sometimes I can slip into the old mold without even realizing it. Then when I read postings such as yours and Sharlene's I find that I need to so some correction in my course. This "work" is never over with as long as we are here and certainly self Awareness is crucial and to be ever in the moment. As I peel off a layer and remove a veil, I find another . . . and so it goes on. Am I tired of it ? You can better your last dollar on it, however, I also know the alternative and that does not appeal to me at all .... been there done it! So it's onward and upward, one small step at a time, being in each moment that carries over to the next etc., etc..

Subject: Re: todays ray

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:01:20 GMT

Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->E.J., you talk about thoughts...one is when thoughts are reactive and ->the other is when we may draw upon a thought to aid us in the moment. ->Can you give an example of this, in order to clarify this for me.

As you know, for example, when you see a friend, automatically thoughts or questions arise about this person or why you may be seeing this person. Automatically from memory or from suspicion or even fear. This is due to the fact that you are connected or attached to this person or something about this person in some way. IN the Moment you are nothing more than an Observer or Witness as it is called. No thoughts or memory or suspicion or fear or even pleasure, just all there IS (you the other person and whatever else) IN/AS that Moment. Unattached or connected in any way because you ARE that Moment and it's contents. Though normal greeting behavior may be construed as social conditioning, and by taking part in such ceremonial greeting behavior it could be construed that you are socially conditioned, unattached to such greeting behavior and taking your pat in it due to simple respect for the one you are greeting (life respecting life) is not conditioning but rather polite respect. IN the Moment, not habitual but rather drawing upon thought or memory or learning so that your actions would be complimentary. That such preliminaries are out of the way, still IN the Moment, not projecting any thoughts or memories into the greeting, an unattached Observer, due to what the other person says or does or whatever is happening that Moment you call forth information/experience/Understanding/Awareness/learning as tools for you to appropriately function IN that situation/Moment. The Key here is instead of a rote reaction due to attachment or due to conditioning, the response is due to an unattached Observation. One an automatic reaction to an equal action and the other a natural response of Understanding what must be done by you IN that Moment. One a conditioned preconceived reaction and the other an Awareness OF/AS the contents of that Moment. It is all in what comes first, the thoughts or the Observation -- do we automatically react or do we Observe then do what must be done due to our Awakening.

Subject: Re: dilemma

From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>

Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 03:29:57 +0100

Hi Group & Welcome J.B.:) Back again. Finally got myself sorted out, my screen disappeared into cyberspace, so had to get a new one, .. back on-line now so I'll try and catch up on the large number of posts that came in while I was off line for a week or so - see you soon! Kindest regards,

Subject: Re: a dilemma

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:07:52 GMT

Greetings JB, you wrote: ->Yes, that's basically what I've been 'feeling' too,.. but alas, sleep- ->fears are strong and they do sound loudest at times.

~ Still Crazy ~

How can this be a notion under the sun

If Truly great is all and all is Truly One,

That conditioned we can ever be those

Separate are forms with separate egos.

The True Nature is and True Nature does

It can never be anything else never was,

Will ever stay just as IS and always will BE

As no notion will sway what it will ever See.

Crazy we surely are for uttering all the words

Of fashioning fishes and of molding birds,

For we can not create nor can be created

Illusions as we are taught and are sedated.

Did you see that sight and hear that sound

Writing is on the wall and is also all around,

Yet few can ever See just where they are

Right where started they did not get too far.

So in our Freedom Quest can we be Saved

From our Illusions road to Hell we've paved,

If we blame it Karma then can we walk away

From cyclic return of this every dreaded day.

All can surely be done if you only believe

And have a couple aces up your sleeve,

For conditioned beliefs all do so paralyse

We see what is project and not Recognize.

It was not ever there before our very youth

So perhaps it's not really the Eternal Truth,

Deluded thinking as our very beloved guide

It really is no wonder that the Trickster lied.

When the Trickster's leash you do let it go

Then the Trickster's power that you'll know,

It is an unequal match do not underestimate

Because in the Balance rests your very Fate.

->(have also sent my 'dilemma' to the Light-Mission forum, where i've ->just subscribed. However there it seems that it goes a bit slow with ->the posting of mails on the list..?!)

Hmmmm, the response was not too bad. Though indeed, it is always nice when more people get into responding. Because when anyone has been here for very long they realize of all the e-mail discussion groups that abound, this one is a most Friendly Kind Loving group. Then, not everyone is going to be completely interested in every discussion. Just don't step on any mushrooms, the Mushroom Goddess gets ornery when her picking is defiled.

Subject: Re: todays ray

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:02:22 -0800

Thankyou E.J. I will say more below:

"E.J." wrote:

> Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: > ->E.J., you talk about thoughts...one is when thoughts are reactive and > ->the other is when we may draw upon a thought to aid us in the moment. > ->Can you give an example of this, in order to clarify this for me. > > As you know, for example, when you see a friend, automatically > thoughts or questions arise about this person or why you may be seeing this > person. Automatically from memory or from suspicion or even fear. This > is due to the fact that you are connected or attached to this person or > something about this person in some way.

So this is what comes up for me...to meet even an old friend as if you never met them before, and anew without any projections, old memories and judgements interfering...also.

> IN the Moment you are nothing > more than an Observer or Witness as it is called. No thoughts or memory > or suspicion or fear or even pleasure, just all there IS (you the other > person and whatever else) IN/AS that Moment. Unattached or connected in > any way because you ARE that Moment and it's contents.

> Though normal > greeting behavior may be construed as social conditioning, and by taking > part in such ceremonial greeting behavior it could be construed that you > are socially conditioned, unattached to such greeting behavior and taking > your pat in it due to simple respect for the one you are greeting (life > respecting life) is not conditioning but rather polite respect. IN the > Moment, not habitual but rather drawing upon thought or memory or learning > so that your actions would be complimentary. That such preliminaries are > out of the way, still IN the Moment, not projecting any thoughts or > memories into the greeting, an unattached Observer, due to what the other > person says or does or whatever is happening that Moment you call forth > information/experience/Understanding/Awareness/learning as tools for you to > appropriately function IN that situation/Moment. The Key here is instead > of a rote reaction due to attachment or due to conditioning, the response > is due to an unattached Observation. One an automatic reaction to an > equal action and the other a natural response of Understanding what must be > done by you IN that Moment. One a conditioned preconceived reaction and > the other an Awareness OF/AS the contents of that Moment. It is all in > what comes first, the thoughts or the Observation -- do we automatically > react or do we Observe then do what must be done due to our Awakening.

I understand what you are saying now....the difference between drawing on a thought and having the automatic ones...ok.

Subject: Re:dilemma

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:30:50 -0700

JB wrote:

> Well anyway, since I cannot say I have the 'answer', feedback would be > welcome. > <G> Is it possible that you do not want to hear your own answer to your question and looking for validation to go against your own answer? If so, I don't think you'll find it here. Dependency from either on another, is still dependency, and is the core ingredient for an unhealthy relationship. Do you think you would be doing the lady a favor by enabling her to continue to be dependent. I heard you say that she is the one suggesting the move - right? If you really want to help, I think you already know what you must do .... the question then is ... do you want to?

(((Love)))

Subject: Re: a dilemma

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:49:58 -0800

Hi JB and EJ,

> Hmmmm, the response was not too bad. Though indeed, it is always >nice when more people get into responding.

Yes, where is everyone? Not sleeping I hope. As Jacquie says, "wake up" drink your coffee while it's hot.

> Because when anyone has been >here for very long they realize of all the e-mail discussion groups that >abound, this one is a most Friendly Kind Loving group.

I second that motion. It is home. We all may be crazy, but this place never is. Cough.......

> Then, not everyone >is going to be completely interested in every discussion.

Right, plus I think it's exam time, flu time, and shovelling time. NO- snow silly.

> Just don't step >on any mushrooms, the Mushroom Goddess gets ornery when her picking is >defiled.

This time of year, mushrooms are only illusion..... Dance where you like.

And to JB, I read your response and will reply through personal experience. We can not form a lasting relationship based on the needs of others. I tried this for over ten years and wore myself out. The label we place on the needs doesn't matter, a need is a need. I found that I began living my life trying to fulfill those needs, and forgot myself in the doing. I was convinced by the person in need, that if I tried harder, it would work. DUH! Soon I learned that it was impossible as the needs seem to grow in intensity and demand. This blossomed into emotional blackmail at it's finest. It got to the point where I had no choice but to save myself, or what was left of myself. I am still, to this day, 3 plus years later, learning and unlearning who I am. I poured my heart and soul onto this community and received heart and soul back from all it's members. As I venture out into the world around me, in and out of various lists, this one will always be home. This is where I get whacked on the head, and accept it, as it is stemmed from an unconditional love and support. Now back to the deli-ema.......Ask yourself "what is you gain by entering into this relationship" Don't ask, what she gains, she gains you, your experience, your knowledge, and support. No one can save you but yourself, what is important to you? What do you want? It sounds like you are quite content with yourself and where you are, which is rare for most people. Do you feel guilty because you are and she isn't? Another thing to consider in the sex department, since you mentioned it. It has occurred to me, through experience of living with someone with a high drive, the drive existed only as a tool for avoidance. It was a way to feel good about oneself, but only for a moment. The hollow spot returns very soon. How can one deal with working on themselves, if all they worry about is high they get from orgasm. There is such a difference between making, sharing love and sex. Anyone can preform the act of sex to achieve avoidance, but making love is the opening up of oneself to share a soul connection. Awareness is not transferable through contact. I think Vinnie or someone else can speak of transference better than I. So I am thinking that I will pass the floor over to him, or another with more experience in that area. The more tools, the better.

Thanks for listening.

Subject: Re: todays ray

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 03:48:58 GMT

Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->So this is what comes up for me...to meet even an old friend as if you never ->met them before, and anew without any projections, old memories and judgements ->interfering...also.

*Deep Bow* When is the Moment ? Is not each Moment anew ? Is not the Moment anew Eternally right NOW ? So too, should not all Direct Experiences IN the Moment BE anew Eternally right NOW ? Where else is the Moment other than Eternally right NOW ?

->I understand what you are saying now....the difference between drawing on a ->thought and having the automatic ones...ok.

*Deep Bow*

Subject: Re: Ponderings

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 03:40:45 GMT

Greetings Perry, you wrote: ->At 03:50 31/01/01, you (Sharlene) wrote: ->>Why do so many Wise men speak in riddles? -> ->They are warned to do so, perhaps?

Not all is what it seems. In this vein, the Wise can do no other than utter Wise words. They have no choice in the matter, for Realizing Truth/Reality is the Realization of What-IS and What-ISNOT, as Realizing Truth/Reality is the Realization of the difference between the two. Wisdom being bound by it's very True Nature to BE What-IS there can be no What-ISNOT. That we still conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons see Wisdom as mere riddles should be a clue to us that it is time to Wake-Up. Indeed, in the Wisdom offered the Wise Realize the simplicity that IS and so their offerings tend to be likewise. Being creatures of conditioned habits we tend to complicate that which is simple so simplicity is quite the riddle. Then too, there are those Wise who expound at great length trying to get us to understand, which is actually more of a confusion though thought of as a riddle. There indeed seems to be only extremes in Wise offerings, some being so simple we have a hard time understanding them and others being so involved that our mind gets tied up in knots. I prefer the *Middle Path* or *Middle Way*, in that Wisdom should be offered in such a way that the listener is more addressed than the speaker. That is, offer the Wisdom in a useful form to the listener. It takes a little longer that way, to get the Point across, but at least it is not riddle or confusion.

->There are levels of learning, ->levels of knowing ->levels of understanding ->levels of wisdom ->levels of doing . . . . -> . . . . or so it seems.

I guess one could call it "levels", as Gary's metaphor of the onion portrays that we peel layer by layer of conditioned notions away so we can Realize the Wisdom offered by the Wise to a point that we do start Awakening. Any descriptive word will do actually, though in actuality Awakening is a continuous Unfolding with no real step or stage involved like the opening of a rose at daybreak for example. A smooth slow gradual unfolding to full bloom. Awesome.

Welcome, glad you joined us here in this simple Oasis Island. An Oasis Island away from the hustle and bustle of the Sleeping megalopolis.

Subject: Re: dilemma

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:05:43 -0800

Gee..Wombat,.good to hear from you....did you see any new planets out in cyberspace? Now I know the Cheshire Cat is Smiling again.

Subject: whacko

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:26:08 -0800

Clueless. Empty of thoughts.<

yep , and he is as crazy as the legless frog playing hopskotch with the snowflakes too....

now where is the straight jacket for e.j....whacko crackers too.

Subject: gyms

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:06:37 -0800

Some people pay money to go to gyms, do aerobics...and so forth. Well in the winter you can shovel your snow and if not enough you can shovel the neighbors sidewalks. In summer you can mow lawns, help seniors mow their yards, pick weeds and so forth and this will not only help you get good exercise, shed pounds, but be a way to meet your neighbors, spread good will and save money. I just got in from shoveling snow here there and everywhere...so much fun. Still don't know my neighbors yet but I sure had fun playing in the snow.

Subject: clone

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:29:16 -0800

Well now Britan will clone a human.....There are too many clones walking around all ready....they may not look alike but like mass hypnosis they are mass conditioned by mass viruses that are passed on not from gene to gene but from so called teacher to student and from parent to child and so ad nauseum.

meet the day anew meet yourself anew forget all the goo don't get stuck in glue don't need another clone or a parrot on my phone....

jacquie snow flake

Subject: re: Which is the dream

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 08:16:06 -0800

Hi JB: >What a mess !, .. until then, the mind-glasses semm to be securily and desperately glued to one's 'nose'..<

so it is the nose that nose and no other....the mess is all the stuff inbetween that comes and goes like ice, water, and vapor....now what is under your nose...but now....

Can you relate to this ?

Yes, I do relate and so step out into the morning with a steaming hot cup of coffee...care to relax and sip it with me....now is not an illusion but all the excess hallabaloo is only trickster games...now if this is nonsense to you, later on it might clear up a bit if you see that there is no compulsions, conflicts, and addictiveness that can attract you much anymore except to open the eyes on this beautiful morning. You are your own true nature, perhaps ....now I bow to the snow storm covering my heart today.

Subject: Re: (no subject)

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:53:55 -0700

Hi Jaquie ~ There are moments when silence is beneficial ... helps to clear the cobwebs out <G>

Subject: Which is the dream ?

From: "J B" <jb789@hotmail.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:22:59 +0100

Hi,

Lately, when I wake up in the morning, I noticed that the mind gets busy with jb's life.. thoughts about the coming day, the relationship to the girl-friend, the relations at work, my 'spiritual'-status, various apprehensions.. And they're all in relation to some-one/thing or situation. It feels like landing in a theater-drams with already predefined roles, and their interaction. And the roles seem to be quite fixed, rigid and imposing themselves on one's participation in the drama. It's like the script is already laid out, with not many modifications possible.

Having all this thrown at one during one's first moments of waking up, can generate a certain, 'oh Jeez, her I go again.. back to life' and a certain resistance.

But lately, all this awake-life-drama 'strikes' me as essentially a dream; not much different from the sleep-dream. A difference though seems to be, that upon waking up, one returns to the -same dream.. a continuation, while the sleep-dreams, they all vary with rare exceptions.

So somehow, now, when I wake up I feel appropriate to say 'well, ok, back to the dream,.. again'; and when going to sleep, I started to feel like I am waking up.

I remember a question, from some Chineze tradition: "so who are you ?.. the man who says that I dreamt that I was a butterfly or the butterfly who says I am dreaming I am a man ?".

I should add that, somehow, regarding the daily awake-life as a dream (and I do not mean of course trying to talk myself into the 'all is illusion' slogan) makes the begining of the day smoother and less 'seriously' threatening. And perhaps I forgot to mention the most important reason for my seeing it as a 'dream'..: Have you noticed how opinions/evaluations about people/situations, conclusions, criteria for decisions for action, fluctuate, change like a mirage into, sometimes, their opposites ?! One day one might think one thing, the next day or next moment the opposite, and back again.

Where, I feel, the seeing of these facts might lead, is the confession that the thought/feeling structure ('mind') is absolutelly Un-reliable and inappropriate tool/guide for Living, and consequently its non-use. Thought is a good tool for learning to read/write, count, one's job and remember where one has placed one's keys,.. but using the mind-glasses on to 'read' Life ?!.. goodness gracious me !.. What a mess !, .. until then, the mind-glasses semm to be securily and desperately glued to one's 'nose'..

Can you relate to this ?

Subject: Re: (no subject)

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 03:48:19 GMT

Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->dull dull dull

What you write of the biological organism/mechanism is quite so, a simple matter of basic Evolution. And indeed the ability of this biological organism/mechanism to conceptualize is again a simple matter of Evolution/Involution. That is, a progression of/in Totality AS it always has been and IS. I would add the learned behavioral and survival skills beyond basic instinctual that are also a form of conditioning. All most needed for our Present interaction IN/AS the Moment from Moment to Moment. All most natural and quite IS our True Nature. Fools try to change it or even try to delete parts of it, yet our True Nature is all we can actually BE. All of this conditioning is quite relative to our Awakening and is no Veil to our Recognition/BEing that True Nature.

However, there is yet other forms of conditioning that indeed do Veil our Recognition of and BEing our True Nature. THAT is the conditioning that I am always speaking ill of. THAT is the conditioning that many a Wise Sage of yore and of Present have also spoken ill of. THAT conditioning is based on the conceptualized need to control and manipulate. Conceptualization is not really a shortcoming, but rather the resultant concepts can very well be. In this concept of control and manipulation we contrive ways to *train* or *program* others such that they will do as we expect they should. Many a means from Pavlov to Skinner, from rote overt reward systems to subliminal induction, all to elicit a desired response to a given stimulus. The human element in this Grand Play / Divine Dance of manifested form is not a robot, but rather a quite spontaneous creative result of an Unfolding Evolution/Involution. So it is the *baggage* or *added* conditioning that is the Veil to our Awakening, not the natural conditioning/programming of biological Evolution/Involution. It is the baggage that we must let go of, the added conditioned notions and beliefs that we must let go of, the Causes of our Suffering that we must let go of.

We must be as newborns, we must shed the influences, we must only take with us what is needed, we must empty the mind, "There is only one Master, and it is neither male nor female. It shines within you as your own Self."(Poonjaji). And to BE our "own Self", to "be as little children", to "avoid influences", to Silence and Empty the mind we must let go of the conditioned notions that Veil the Recognition/BEing our True Nature IN the very Present Moment. And this conditioning that Veils our Awakening does not just fade off into the sunset one day, as it is the most Painful and arduous undertaking to let go of. Arjuna's Battles were Illusions ? Yes they were, but he went through Hell and back (much Pain and Struggle) to let go of those Illusions. Showing that we would give up most anything for some cause whether it be noble or folly, yet will refuse to the death to give up a single minor shard of the Causes (added conditioned notions) of our Suffering. It is the conditioned notions and beliefs that are the Mother of our Illusory perception.

"An apperception of the basic meaning-lessness of conventional values, in terms of reality, lifts man out of the apparent strife and conflict of life. He now sees life as a game in which he must participate according to the rules but which he need not take at all seriously. The only proof of absolute Truth is not in knowing it, because it cannot be known, but in BEing it." -- Ramesh Balsekar

True ? Or what ?

Subject: Re: Which is the dream ?

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 23:36:27 GMT

Greetings JB, you wrote: ->Lately, when I wake up in the morning, I noticed that the mind gets ->busy with jb's life.. thoughts about the coming day, the relationship ->to the girl-friend, the relations at work, my 'spiritual'-status, ->various apprehensions..

Could this be due to the mind not being able to find life ? One of the few items that the mind can not BE is Life. That is, the mind can not have a life of it's own. The mind is an operating system, a facilitator, and nothing more. Now, due to running a myriad of programs the mind does generate thoughts *about* life as we are programmed to perceive it but has no clue as to Life.

->And they're all in relation to some-one/thing or situation.

You mean *attached* ? Clinging to ?

-> It feels ->like landing in a theater-drams with already predefined roles, and ->their interaction. And the roles seem to be quite fixed, rigid and ->imposing themselves on one's participation in the drama. It's like ->the script is already laid out, with not many modifications possible.

Simply put, it is called conditioned/programmed and controlled/manipulated.

->Having all this thrown at one during one's first moments of waking ->up, can generate a certain, 'oh Jeez, her I go again.. back to life' ->and a certain resistance.

Not "thrown at" but rather arising due to the programs that the mind runs.

->But lately, all this awake-life-drama 'strikes' me as essentially a ->dream; not much different from the sleep-dream. A difference though ->seems to be, that upon waking up, one returns to the -same dream.. a ->continuation, while the sleep-dreams, they all vary with rare ->exceptions.

Indeed, Sleeping and sleeping are Sleeping and sleeping. Sleeping is one of those items that when we are Sleeping or simply sleeping we do not Realize that we are Sleeping or sleeping. But "a rose is a rose is a rose, by any other name is still a rose", so is said.

->So somehow, now, when I wake up I feel appropriate to say 'well, ok, ->back to the dream,.. again'; and when going to sleep, I started to ->feel like I am waking up.

Indeed, with a good imagination we can call a rose by any other name and *believe* that the rose is something other than a rose. Legends in our own mind.

->I remember a question, from some Chineze tradition: ->"so who are you ?.. the man who says that I dreamt that I was a ->butterfly or the butterfly who says I am dreaming I am a man ?".

Have butterflies written any books ?

->I should add that, somehow, regarding the daily awake-life as a dream ->(and I do not mean of course trying to talk myself into the 'all is ->illusion' slogan) makes the begining of the day smoother and ->less 'seriously' threatening.

Indeed, we can fool ourself about everything some of the time and fool ourself about some things all the time but we can not fool ourself about everything all the time.

->Have you noticed how opinions/evaluations about people/situations, ->conclusions, criteria for decisions for action, fluctuate, change ->like a mirage into, sometimes, their opposites ?! ->One day one might think one thing, the next day or next moment the ->opposite, and back again.

Indeed, they are dreaming. For that sort of so called life is not Real.

->Where, I feel, the seeing of these facts

"Facts" ? *Roaring Laughter*

->might lead, is the ->confession that the thought/feeling structure ('mind')

Do not mistake the jump nor the frog for the frog jumping. Only the legless frog reveals this.

-> is absolutelly ->Un-reliable and inappropriate tool/guide for Living, and consequently ->its non-use. Thought is a good tool for learning to read/write, ->count, one's job and remember where one has placed one's keys,.. but ->using the mind-glasses on to 'read' Life ?!..

Ah, the crux of the matter. Thought, programs, conditioned ideas and notions of all sorts, IS the Cause of this Suffering.

->goodness gracious me !.. What a mess !, ..

A Revelation, the first step toward Awakening.

->until then, the mind-glasses semm to be securily and desperately ->glued to one's 'nose'..

"Mind-glasses" indeed. The rose colored glasses of our conditioned programmed controlled manipulated modus operandi.

->Can you relate to this ?

Clueless. Empty of thoughts.

Subject: Re: whacko

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 04:06:01 GMT

Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->yep , and he is as crazy as the legless frog playing hopskotch with the ->snowflakes too.... -> ->now where is the straight jacket for e.j....whacko crackers too.

And e.j. wept..... saying: "can't you see i'm having a spiritual experience here ?" Saltines ?

Subject: re: dullery

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:17:19 -0800

>"There is only one Master, and it is neither male nor female. It shines within you as your own Self."(Poonjaji). <

now i like this poonjaji although i have no idea what a poonjaji does or who most likely Is.... snif.... there is not one dull snowflake in this universe i would say....please forgive my small complaint.

Subject: Happy GroundHog Day

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:54:42 -0800

This is one of my favorite holidays.....now did you know that it was originally the Hedge Hog rather than the Ground Hog, but in North America Ground Hogs are more prevalent. Now is the Prairie Dog the Same thing as the Ground Hog? Anyway we have Prairie Dogs close by here. Now does anyone know if the Ground Hog saw its Shadow. I know that if he sees his shadow then he goes back underground for another six weeks...cause the shadow scares him...so they say. Now yes E.J., I do remember the raidio show the Shadow Knows...and also Green Door, Green Hornet, And InterSanctum....(that radio show scared the hell out of me and my folks did not let me listen to it, but when the parents were gone, we kids listened anyway. Now the scariest was the Monkeys Paw....now radio was much more interesting than television for our imagination was incredible.... oops...can't keep my mouth shut today.

Subject: Re: clone

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 04:49:06 GMT

->Jacquie Snow must be related somehow to Jack Frost....cousins ->perhaps....

Yes, both had the same father though different mothers. The father was Corn Flake, so they are both Flakes.

corn or warn, flake or bake, snow or sew, frost or lost, jack or flack, jacquie or whackie.

Only the hairdresser knows for sure.

Subject: re: Ramesh Balsekar and the Frog

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 07:29:03 -0800

First of all....the word E.J....apperception jumps at me....now I have not heard of it so it appears to me to me the naming and perceptions of things?

>"An apperception of the basic meaning-lessness >of conventional values, in terms of reality,

Yes there is a meaning-lessness of conventional values and one even sees the almost cartoon like panarama of it.

>lifts man out of the apparent strife and conflict of life. >He now sees life as a game in which he must participate >according to the rules but which he need not take at all seriously.

Yes, it seems that suffering comes about when one is serious about it and or passionate...

>The only proof of absolute Truth is not in knowing it, because it cannot be known, but in BEing it." -- Ramesh Balsekar>

So, in order to know what pudding is, one needs only to eat it.

True ? Or what ?<

for the moment....until you jump again o frog of the legless kingdom.

Subject: Re: Ramesh Balsekar and the Frog

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 15:38:03 GMT

Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->So, in order to know what pudding is, one needs only to eat it.

~ The Great Perfection ~

It has been said that dreams are Illusions

Nothing much more nontangible delusions,

A product of the mind so they arise and fall

Never knowing where they go or came at all.

They are unReal so must be considered not

Only when eyes are shut do they arise a lot,

When opened eyes they fade back away

And will surely come back yet another day.

Yet in our Sleeping mode carry them with us

Even when with open eyes still quite the fuss,

So as conditioned we are to give them a life

They are our very own contend with the strife.

So it really matters not whether it is confusion

We hold it very dear thinking not it an intrusion,

We know in our mind's eye that it is our reason

Those without those dreams a state of treason.

How can this be controlled by Grand Trickster

Dreaming the very dream thinking no mixture,

We give it credence 'cause we know no other

It is our very own truth all else we will not bother.

Conception is real dreams being a conception

They are so surely real in a warped perception,

We identify with this so what else could it be

Wearing our blinders see what we want to see.

Yet Awakening surely is the greatest dissolution

O the myriad streams of this the Grand Illusion,

As True Nature must BE the only feeling we feel

For in it's Perfection is all that ever will be Real.

Subject: Re: where is

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 16:50:46 GMT

Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Now when I feel a reaction, and even react inside, I ask ->myself what is the conditioning that is working itself out upon this ->moment...where is the trap that i just stepped on.

Your offering is the Key: "The means to study oneself is self-observation. There is no other way and no one can do this work for us. We must do it ourselves." (Ouspensky), and "In order to see himself in other people's faults and not merely to see the faults of others, a man must be very sincere with himself." (Gurdjieff)

Subject: life lessons

From: o.dodge@att.net

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:30:56 +0000

Great e-mail to start off the weekend.

1 - Most Important Lesson

During my second month of nursing school, our professor gave us a pop quiz. I was a conscientious student and had breezed through the questions, until I read the last one: What is the first name of the woman who cleans the school? Surely this was some kind of joke. I had seen the cleaning woman several times. She was tall, dark- haired and in her 50s, but how would I know her name?> I handed in my paper, leaving the last question blank. Just before class ended, one student asked if the last question would count toward our quiz grade.> "Absolutely", said the professor. "In your careers, you will meet many people. All are significant. They deserve your attention and care, even if all you do is smile and say 'hello'."

I've never forgotten that lesson. I also learned her name was Dorothy.

Second Important Lesson - Pickup in the Rain

One night, at 11:30 PM, an older African American woman was standing on the side of an Alabama highway trying to endure a lashing rainstorm. Her car had broken down and she desperately needed a ride. Soaking wet, she decided to flag down the next car. A young white man stopped to help her, generally unheard of in those conflict-filled 1960s. The man took her to safety, helped her get assistance and put her into a taxicab. She seemed to be in a> big hurry, but wrote down his address and thanked him. Seven days went by and a knock came on the man's door. To his surprise, a giant console color TV was delivered to his home. A special note was attached. It read: "Thank you so much for assisting me on the highway the other night. The rain drenched not only my clothes, but also my spirits. Then you came along. Because of you, I was able to make it to my dying husband's bedside just before he passed away. God bless you for helping me and unselfishly serving others."

Sincerely, Mrs. Nat King Cole.

3 - Third Important Lesson - Always remember those who serve In the days when an ice cream sundae cost much less, a 10 year old boy entered a hotel coffee shop and sat at a table. A waitress put a glass of water in front of him. "How much is an ice cream sundae?" he asked. "Fifty cents," replied the waitress. The little boy pulled his hand out of his pocket and studied the coins in it. "Well, how much is a plain dish of ice cream?" he inquired. By now more people were waiting for a table and the waitress was growing impatient. "Thirty-five cents," she brusquely replied.

The little boy again counted his coins. "I'll have the plain ice cream," he said. The waitress brought the ice cream, put the bill on the table and walked away. The boy finished the ice cream, paid the cashier and left. When the waitress came back, she began to cry as she wiped down the table.

There, placed neatly beside the empty dish, were two nickels and five pennies - You see, he couldn't have the sundae, because he had to have enough left to leave her a tip.

4 - Fourth Important Lesson - The Obstacle in Our Path

In ancient times, a King had a boulder placed on a roadway. Then he hid himself and watched to see if anyone would remove the huge rock. Some of>the king's wealthiest merchants and courtiers came by and simply walked around it. Many loudly blamed the king for not keeping the roads clear, but none did anything about getting the stone out of the way. Then a peasant came along carrying a load of vegetables. Upon approaching the boulder, the peasant laid down his burden and tried to move the stone to the side of the road. After much pushing and straining, he finally succeeded. After the peasant picked up his load of vegetables, he noticed a purse>lying in the road where the boulder had been. The purse contained many gold coins and a note from the king indicating that the gold was for the person who removed the boulder from the roadway.> The peasant learned what many of us never understand. Every obstacle presents an opportunity to improve our condition.

5 - Fifth Important Lesson - Giving When it Counts>

Many years ago, when I worked as a volunteer at a hospital, I got to know a little girl named Liz who was suffering from a rare and serious disease. Her only chance of recovery appeared to be a blood transfusion from her 5-year> old brother, who had miraculously survived the same disease and had developed the antibodies, needed to combat the illness.

The doctor explained the situation to her little brother, and asked the little boy if he would be willing to give his blood to his sister. I saw him hesitate for only a moment before taking a deep breath and saying, "Yes, I'll do it if it will save her."

As the transfusion progressed, he lay in bed next to his sister and smiled, as we all did, seeing the color returning to her cheeks. Then his face grew pale and his smile faded. He looked up at the doctor and asked with a trembling voice, "Will I start to die right away?"

Being young, the little boy had misunderstood the doctor; he thought he was going to have to give his sister all of his blood in order to save her.

Subject: The old women of the shore

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 12:08:25 -0800

This poem spoke to me today as one with an open eye...It is written by Pablo Neruda, 197 Nobel laureate for literature, the Book Extravagaria.

The old women of the shore

To the grave sea come the old women with shawls knotted round them, on frail and brittle feet.

They sit themselves on the shore without changing eyes or hands, without changing clouds or silence.

The obscene sea breaks and scrapes, slides down trumpeting mountains, shakes out its bulls' beards.

The unruffled women sitting as though in a glass boat look at the savaging waves.

Where are they going, where have they been? they come from every corner, they come from our own life.

Now they have the ocean, the cold and burning emptiness, the solitude full of flames.

They come out of all the past, from houses which once were fragrant, from burnt-out twilights.

They watch or don't watch the sea, they scrawl marks with a stick, and the sea wipes out their calligraphy.

The old women rise and go on their delicate birds' feet, while the great roistering waves roll nakedly on in the wind.

Subject: re: Life's Lessons

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 16:12:27 -0800

Very Good Oren:

For several yrs. I was the janitor and many knew my name and many did not. You learn a lot about people, also, when you clean their bathrms. Now there were 17 bathrms in the building. The Courtrms were the cleanest, then the Rural Development, were next and the Post Office bathrms....were the dirtiest. Also cleaning under desks tells you a lot also. I learned to hate staples too, cause you couldn't vacumn them up....you had to get down on the hands and knees and dig them out of the carpets. When waxing and buffing floors, some people were polite about not entering the rm...when they were wet, and others were grouches....expecially when the bathrms were locked temporarily....yet if people walked on the wet floors and slipped they would sue the government who owned the building looking for a fast buck. So the job was an eye opener...at least for me.

Subject: question

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 06:44:49 -0800

E.J., you said this in the ray:

>Memories Bind us to the past and distract our Attention from the Present Moment. <

Does this mean we never talk about a past memory. I do sometimes, as when I shared here the memories I had when I was a janitor. course today if I was a janitor, it may be entirely different for I am not the same exact person as then. Yet many times we do talk about something from the past...as when I was a kid we had radio and not t.v. ...sort of thing. Yet it is so true that one need not cling to it and meet this day anew and everything in it. Yet when I am in the past, I know it, and when in the future, and when in the present.

Subject: (fwd) Forward to the list

On Thu, 3 May 2001 22:48:18 -0700,

"Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org> wrote:

Ray wrote: > Get rid of what you *know* and embrace the Moment with your total > BEing without projecting conditioned dizzying notions into/onto the > experience. Experience What-IS, whatever it IS, AS it IS -- let the > experience tell you it's story instead of you already having a story to > apply to it

Now Ray, this is brilliant. :-) It is simple, easy to read, easy to grasp and such a good example of what I am learning to do. Sometimes I don't do as good as I would like to. It's not try try again, it's do and do again. Like the brother's Pete and Repeat.....until you do it naturally and without thought or intent.

Thanks for the gem.

Subject: Re: question

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 15:56:26 GMT

Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Does this mean we never talk about a past memory. I do sometimes, as ->when I shared here the memories I had when I was a janitor. course today ->if I was a janitor, it may be entirely different for I am not the same ->exact person as then. Yet many times we do talk about something from the ->past...as when I was a kid we had radio and not t.v. ...sort of thing. ->Yet it is so true that one need not cling to it and meet this day anew ->and everything in it. Yet when I am in the past, I know it, and when in ->the future, and when in the present.

We can not get rid of the memories nor can we get rid of the past, both are as much the Present as the Present. That is, we got to where we are from where we were, as we will get to where we are going from where we are. Nor would we want to get rid of the memories and past for that is all good resource material and Direct Experience to draw on for Observations IN the Present Moment. Memories and past are like a volume on the shelf to be looked at or referred to when or as needed, for neither memory or past is Real. Problem is that due to conditioned notions, fear of the Present, memories and past is a refuge and so we dwell there establishing it as Reality. The Present, the Moment, Observation with no intent or motive, is most insecure because we are living as life is happening, doing as needs be done. Living in the past on memories we know what will happen because the movie has already played (more secure). So BEing IN the Present, BEing IN the Moment, is Pure Observation with no memories or past experiences arising UNTIL/UNLESS they are drawn upon to skillfully function IN the Moment.

Now, to answer your question more directly, it is not a matter that we do not talk about the past or memories, but rather a matter that we can not let them arise automatically or contribute attention to them when they do because they are not Real. When someone asks you something that relates to past and/or memories, you draw upon them in functionality at the Moment. It is when something triggers the past and memories to arise and you dwell in that past and/or memories as though they were the Present that is defiling. When someone is dwelling in the past and memories and calls upon you to do the same, the coffee table reminiscence of the good old days, yes, a futile waste of time and energy and attention. Life is not to be wasted, but rather Lived AS it IS right NOW. No ?

There is a vital difference between our attention focussed in the past and/or memories and focussed IN the Present. That difference is the difference between Sleeping and Awakening. Life is a Grand Adventure, for each Moment is anew and we are the Adventurer. Seems quite stifling to always have the security blanket of past/memories Binding us. No ?

Subject: Memories

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 11:28:46 -0700

> E.J wrote: > > There is a vital difference between our attention focussed in the past > and/or memories and focussed IN the Present. That difference is the > difference between Sleeping and Awakening. Life is a Grand Adventure, for > each Moment is anew and we are the Adventurer. Seems quite stifling to > always have the security blanket of past/memories Binding us. No ? > Very good E.J.

By the same token - we cannot live in the fear of the (unknown) future. We do what needs to be done NOW with all the circumstance of the moment IN the moment. The circumstance may change with each moment and we need to be flexible and pliable to flow in with those changes without getting all stressed out. Stress is a conditioning of past experiences that has not been favorable, which translates into the fear of the unknown future and the "What if ..." syndrome.

Doing the best that we can IN the moment with what we have is the only requirement (if I may phrase it that way!) Again - easier said than done, because of past conditioning. This is why it is imperative that we are constantly aware of where we are IN the moment with our thoughts - not allowing them to control us if they are "born" out of the past, or are conceived out of fear of the unknown future.

I trust this ramble makes sense <G>

Happy Sunday to all!

Subject: Re: Memories

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:55:12 GMT

Greetings Gary, you wrote: ->By the same token - we cannot live in the fear of the (unknown) future. ->We do what needs to be done NOW with all the circumstance of the moment ->IN the moment. The circumstance may change with each moment and we need ->to be flexible and pliable to flow in with those changes without getting ->all stressed out. Stress is a conditioning of past experiences that has ->not been favorable, which translates into the fear of the unknown future ->and the "What if ..." syndrome. -> ->Doing the best that we can IN the moment with what we have is the only ->requirement (if I may phrase it that way!) Again - easier said than ->done, because of past conditioning. This is why it is imperative that we ->are constantly aware of where we are IN the moment with our thoughts - ->not allowing them to control us if they are "born" out of the past, or ->are conceived out of fear of the unknown future. -> ->I trust this ramble makes sense <G>

Makes sense here. Sense in senselessness, however, is senselessly as senseless as the senselessness. This is why it is senseless to senselessness for Truth to make sense. So as conditioned programmed automatons, the only thing that makes sense is to be conditioned and programmed and conditionings/programs. This is why so few Recognize/Realize/BE Truth, it does not fall into the conditioned programmed mode of operation so it is senseless. That can not be changed, for that is the Suffering. What can be changed is the conditioned programmed mode of operation, for that is the Cause of the Suffering. Change Suffering and what you get is another or different Suffering. Change the Cause of Suffering and you get Suffering changed -- supposedly, I am told, to NonSuffering. But then, that could be senseless -- so what we have to do is find out for ourself. The Suffering has only intensified with our efforts to change Suffering, so is it not time we try another route ?

It is denied that there is Suffering for there is no one to Suffer. That All, Suffering and NonSuffering, IS What-IS so there can not be a Sufferer and NonSufferer -- there can only be What-IS. Which is True when there is no Suffering. Yet while there is Suffering, while there is a conditioned programmed modus operandi, there will be suffering and there will be those who Suffer. We just have to take a look out of the window of our self-created Tower and Openly and Honestly Look. Self-created by our self-conditioned-programmed-thinking. I would liken this to the story of Siddhartha, a grand princely price sheltered from What-IS by What-ISNOT (conditioning/programming), when he looked out of the window of his castle he noticed that there was a vast difference between Sleeping (What-ISNOT) and Awakening (What-IS). All this time Sleeping yet conditioned/programmed to *think* he was Awake. A Rude Shock, and Painful Whack. So Rude the Shock, so Painful the Whack, he dedicated the rest of his life to finding out what this difference was and doing what must be done to rectify it. Likewise, as intently though perhaps not as intensely, is it not time for humanity to find out what that difference is and do what must be done to rectify it too ?

Rambling seems to be contagious Gary {8->

Subject: Re: Memories

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 13:35:06 -0700

> E.J. wrote: > >> Likewise, as intently though perhaps not as intensely, is it not time for humanity to find >> >> out what that difference is and do what must be done to rectify it too ? >>

Indeed! I would venture to add that humanity has "slept-in" for much too long. Time to wake up and rub the sleep from the eyes and see the world/life as IS ~ not in the illusion of what is thought to be. The rose tinted glasses are getting very murky. We all need to have cataract surgery <G>

Subject: now

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 13:34:13 -0800

Since I read whatever is written the legs took to a walking....feeling the crisp air still on my nose as the warm indoor air now tingles on the skin. Feeling the click of the keys here and hearing the sounds like a language in keys...all different sounds...some thuddy and others lighter. Now the moment is the life and what is before and after is not nearly as wonderously....can't smell it, see it, hear it, or touch it....except when it is now....now listening to the soft singing of the computer and whistle like sounds coming from the rm. Nothing to get excited about or nostalgic...just what Is....in every whit and bit of it.

Subject: Re: question

From: "Melody" <melody@socket.net>

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:22:57 -0800

Hello Jacquie and EJ and everyone,

Listening to your conversation, some thoughts arise in response to:

> Thankyou E.J. for answering my question and I may say more here. > > >Problem is that due to conditioned notions, fear > of the Present, memories and past is a refuge and so we dwell there > establishing it as Reality. < > > What or why is it that the present is feared? Is not it better to be > open rather than to be closed to what Is...

For me, there does not seem to be a fear of the present as long as I am holding no expectation or design of how the Present *should be*.

When fear arises in the Present, it is often because there is a conflict between my *idea* of Now, and the Face of Now as It unfolds.

If I were to listen to the fear, it would say,

"I'm afraid that I (the ego) am not in charge, after all. I'm afraid that Life simply moves me (the body/mind complex) as It will."

I can think of no greater fear.

And, paradoxically, no greater opportunity for relief of suffering.

Subject: Wombat!!! Your Welcome

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:32:13 -0800

We seem to bubble up from the same soup...and now that they took the straight jackets off us...we can race down the yellow brick road!!

Subject: re: question

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:41:58 -0800

Thankyou E.J. for answering my question and I may say more here.

>Problem is that due to conditioned notions, fear of the Present, memories and past is a refuge and so we dwell there establishing it as Reality. <

What or why is it that the present is feared? Is not it better to be open rather than to be closed to what Is...

Subject: Re: life lessons

From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 02:51:25 +0100

----- Original Message ----- From: <o.dodge@att.net> To: "missionoflight-l" <missionoflight-l@Light-Mission.org> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 10:30 PM Subject: life lessons

> Great e-mail to start off the weekend.

Hi there Orin:) I think this will last me longer than a weekend :-) Thank you-

Subject: ovum

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 21:16:18 -0800

cutting loose the attachements, strings, and vissages of yesterdays yesterminutes yellow documents aged defilements of texts full of stale milk and yet some insist on nursing us with the stench of it...

how does it seem the sound of demogogues and wormy-gogues conditionings choking on the toast of duality and cruality...

now now now is baking in your stale breath.

an observation from the ovum.

Subject: Re: A bit of nostalgia

From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 03:00:20 +0100

:-))) I remember quite a bit of that Oren. I sometimes look at the TV and think, I wonder if I would miss you at all if you *croaked* and then I cherish the thought for a bit longer :-)). I love to read without distractions - life has moved on - but on the other hand if I were to have my way of it, I think my dear hubby would be very unhappy about it.

Where I smiled all the way through it, at the same time I was making little notes in the margin, yes but that and that wasn't so hot then. Like the reference you made in the other post about Mrs Nat King Cole. We can be very happy life has moved forward somewhat for people of other than a white skin, which ever that might be, but for me in this regard, it hasn't moved forward anywhere near enough. But I feel what it is your writing here though, it was nice!

Subject: Re: Happy GroundHog Day

From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 02:42:41 +0100

Ha ha Jacquie, never you mind, you waffle very pleasantly :) - even in the middle of *my* night you make me smile together with E.J. - Ground Hog day - serious US thing that? European question that ;-)

Subject: Re: Ramesh Balsekar and the Frog

From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 02:46:26 +0100

Dear Jacquie:)

Does a frog need legs to taste it? - is it tasty to the frog? - frogs are true to their selves - mmm may I learn that too then:)! BEing in the now more than the splintered trying to be in different places at the same time. I get better, I slip a bit I get a bit better. :-)) Sort of like exercising the frogs legs up - and down - and up ;-)

Subject: Re: question

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 02:14:28 GMT

Greetings Melody, you wrote: ->For me, there does not seem to be a fear of the present ->as long as I am holding no expectation or design of ->how the Present *should be*. -> ->When fear arises in the Present, it is often because ->there is a conflict between my *idea* of Now, and ->the Face of Now as It unfolds. -> ->If I were to listen to the fear, it would say, -> ->"I'm afraid that I (the ego) am not in charge, ->after all. I'm afraid that Life simply moves ->me (the body/mind complex) as It will." -> ->I can think of no greater fear. -> ->And, paradoxically, no greater opportunity for ->relief of suffering.

*Deep Bow* Not one for one-liners, but I thought I would acknowledge your offering to be True from here. That is why humanity fears the Present, because they have expectations of what they *think* the Present is, which it never is so they revert back to what they *know* for security (protection from the Present). It is when we embrace the Present anew as the Present is anew, then we can enjoy the Present (Moment) AS it IS.

Welcome and thank you for joining in. We are sort of hopeless cases here, so we can use all the Help you can offer {8->

Subject: Re: question

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 05:53:17 -0800

Thankyou Melody and E.J.: Now I see what you are saying and understand it better. It is good to hear others here jump in and add something...like a flavor so needed. Thanks again.

Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 05:58:49 GMT

Greetings Community,

It has been queried: ->Does the feeling of "being at peace" within us help & prepare us ->to awaken? As opposed to being "racked with at war within". By "war" I mean ->turmoil, unease & torn with anxiety & doubt etc.

"Being at peace", BEing Peace, can do no harm Dear Friend, it makes for a very good base to Work from and indeed an inclination for Awakening. But I would not call it a preparation, though without the positive inclination of Peace Within one could not hope to start Awakening. For you see, all that is what we call internal or within is nothing more than our conditionings. It is in the Silencing Within or the Voiding of thoughts that actually generates Awakening. And not actually so much a generating but rather as we let go of conditioned notions Awakening Unfolds quite naturally. Not all conditionings of course, but rather only those that stand in the way of our Awakening to what actually IS instead of that which we are conditioned to believe.

This is all in establishing What-IS by letting go of What-ISNOT. Even clinging to the "being at peace" is just another thought that must be Silenced. Letting go of the distractions (arising thoughts), it makes it much easier to focus attention on the very Present (which many call the NOW or the Moment). The Key here is getting rid of old worn out baggage that serves no real purpose for us. Awakening we have to travel light, we have our hands full fighting with our conditioned notions so we should not bother ourselves will lugging around a bunch of baggage (conditioned notions). So Awakening is all about letting go of conditioned notions and beliefs in this and that, whether we can them baggage or programs or whatever.

Any comments from the Community ?

Subject: Re: ray of light

From: o.dodge@att.net

Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 23:44:01 +0000

Greetings EJ, you asked...

"Any comments from the Community ?"

Now how could I pass up that opportunity !<G>

Someone asked the board...

"Does the feeling of "being at peace" within us help & prepare us to awaken? As opposed to being "racked with at war within". By "war" I mean turmoil, unease & torn with anxiety & doubt etc."

I think EJ answered that pretty well. I would only add that "being at peace" wil NOT generate awakening/enlightenment -- yet awakening/enlightenment WILL generate a sense of inner-peace. (Yet given my druthers, I would choose inner-peace over inner-turmoil any day.)

But I think there's an implied question-within-a- question here, namely...

"What is it -- what is 'the thing' -- that keeps us from walking the path of awakening/enlightenment?"

And the answer to that is a simple one. The "thing" that keeps you from walking the 'path of awakening' is YOU !!! Now that might SEEM like a trite answer -- yet it's not meant to be. So let me re-phrase it a it...The 'thing' that keeps you from walking the 'path of awakening' is the ILLUSION that there is a 'you'.

So not unlike Einstein's E=MC2, where the answer is simple -- the solution is not, meaning I have no simple instructions to offer on how to shake or rid yourself of that illusion -- but that doesn't stop me from writing about it! <G>

EJ said...

"So Awakening is all about letting go of conditioned notions and beliefs in this and that, whether we call them baggage or programs or whatever."

I certainly have no quarrel with that statement -- but would only substitute "not bringing into play" for "letting go of" in that sentence. But that is perhaps like two bald men fighting over a comb -- almost pointless.

But again, back to this 'thing' that keeps one from walking the path of awakening/enlightenmment -- or the illusion of a "you".

>From the moment we are born into -- thrust into - the world, we begin an inner-quest to shake that feeling of being separate. A baby will cry at the mere thought of being apart from his/her mother. We hate the thought being alone -- separate. We want to feel 'as one' just like we were in the womb. And paradoxially, the 'weapon of choice' for this struggle to feel 'as one' is our mind.

And I say paradoxially, because at some point in our existence, we start to think that we actually ARE our minds -- and thus, the 'you' is created. And the 'you' slowly takes over. It runs your life. Hmmm... maybe we should add an "I" to that...it ruIns your life.) Virtually every thought you have seems directly/indrectly dedicated to comparing and analyzing the "now" with past experiences -- constantly searching for agreement and acceptance -- because it somehow falsely equates 'agreement' and 'acceptance' with 'not being separate'. (Yet the feeling of "acceptence" is still a far cry from an experience of 'oneness'.)

See the dilemma/paradox? In order to win the struggle, we need to surrender our 'weapon' -- our mind -- that created illusion we cling to of there being a 'you'. So in order to exist the way 'you' want to exist -- in a state of awakening or enlightenment -- the 'you' must become non-existent. Paradoxical and confusing to say the least, because the mind -- the 'you' -- probably more-or-less equates this to death. (Hmmm...what's the bible say?...."You must be born again?")

I am not quite sure how to say what I'm about to say next, beause it is somewhat like the old "which came first -- the chicken or the egg" question. But within the awakening/enlightenment experience, is also an experience of 'oneness'. Or perhaps it's...in the experience of 'oneness', the state of awakening/enlightenment exists. Or perhaps both experiences happen simultameously -- I'm not sure -- but do know that they seem to be 'joined at the hip'. Advaita -- which is probably the world's most highly regarded -- or at least popular -- Eastern spiritual philosophy -- literal translation is "not two". Which is a powerful and clever way to stress the thought of "only one".

But can you see the possibility? From the experience of "oneness" -- when the illusion of a 'you', and the illusion of a 'me' disappear -- all threats to your survival disappear -- because there is no longer a 'you' that feels any need to survive -- and the illusion that there's something 'out there' threatening survival disappears at the very same time. (What is that prayer that EJ sometimes concludes his messages with? Something about "the self rememberance of one"? To me, at least -- that is "the path" thru the "gateless gate".)

And with all this new-found mental freedom, the mind is left with the simple task of just letting 'what is' be 'what is' -- or experience awakening, and is no longer compelled to continually process all those past conditionings.

And again -- sorry -- because I have no "magic bullet" or blueprint to guide you to an 'experience of oneness', but can only confirm that it is available as a possibility.

happy hunting.....oren

Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:56:08 -0700

> Any comments from the Community ? > >

^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v >

Since you asked ... E.J. ~ <G>

Never one to lose an opportunity to voice my "two cents" worth I comment:

My experience has been that none of this can be separated in that, all that we experience in the moment is IT - The Lesson, be that experience a joyous one or not.

The key for me, is to recognize the experience as it's happening, be aware of what it is that is happening and file it away (for the moment) for further evaluation. Like playing the keyboard, this takes practice and after awhile it becomes "second nature" to one, and, as in the manner we became automaton to the unsavory conditioning, we also become conditioned to this more healthy aspect of our sojourn through this incarnation.

It is by awareness to what IS happening and recognizing of WHAT is happening, (thus being able to acknowledge IT,) that we can then make changes of that which we don't like.

The focus is not on the "conditioning", but rather on what it is that we have been conditioned to that is making our life so miserable. In other words - the substance of the conditioning is that which needs to be evaluated and discarded if not healthy.

When I use the word "change" I mean "not to replace", rather to DO that which is necessary for the betterment of our life.

Sometimes that means simply discarding (letting go) of that toxin that is harming us. Within the TRUE NATURE of who are is not toxic; it is all the ever increasing load of "crap" that has been plastered on us that we carry around. Once aware of that, we can say "NO - no more!"

As I progress in this process, my "peace of mind" becomes more acute and noticeable and the overall process becomes less of a "task". However the "task" never ends as long as we live in this environment and community of people that produces those toxins. That is why it is imperative that we do not do the same to the following generations as what was done and which we allowed to be done to us.

I see this "time" that I am in, as having one foot in the "old way" and one foot in the "new way" of conducting our life. We are in the transitional period, of the AGE change. The fact that we are all meeting here in this Oasis is not be accident.

I see I have input three cents worth .... <G>

Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:59:14 GMT

Greetings Gary, you wrote: ->Since you asked ... E.J. ~ <G>

Oooops. Sheesh, me and my big mouth {8->

->I see I have input three cents worth .... <G>

A poultry "three cents worth" to you Dear Friend, but invaluable fortune of Insights to the rest of us, thank you.

Subject: re; ray

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:03:40 -0800

There is no Inner Self and outer personality self, though dualistically we are conditioned to *think* that there is the two of us.<

so who is it looking in the mirror...at herself, himself then...

Subject: Re: re; ray

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 02:22:04 GMT

Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Ray:>There is no Inner Self and outer personality self, though dualistically ->we are conditioned to *think* that there is the two of us.< -> ->Jacquie:>so who is it looking in the mirror...at herself, himself then...

What mirror ? IN/AS the Moment, undefiled by conditioned notions, no projections into/onto that Moment, there is only What-IS -- no Self and no self and not even a mirror. When we ARE that Moment, when we ARE What-IS, there is no differentiation between the Observer and the Observed -- there is only the Moment, there is only What-IS, there is only YOU. IN/AS that Moment there is a certain continuum of functionality within/between/as the multiplicities that ARE that Moment. A certain Totality of BEing which IS inclusive of whatever IS. Within the context of the rest of Ray's offering, where this clip came from, no doubt he was speaking of the Moment right after the last conditioned notion is let go of. For the ego or personal self in opposition to the Inner Self establishes The Seeker on the Quest of the Holy Grail, the Divine Self, the True Nature, What-IS. But once we have gotten rid of the conditioned notions even the Seeker is let go of for we no longer Seek but rather ARE that for which we were Seeking. In the conditioned modus operandi there is always this duality of a Tiger chasing it's tail. When IN/AS Awakening, the Tiger IS the tail.

"In the beginning" (so to speak) the new born is quite non-dualistic and IN/AS the Moment, then as the accommodating world at large graciously brainwashes the new born duality is born (the One is made Two), so then we have to back-wash the brain-wash and get back to BEing that non-duality IN/AS the Moment *again* ("be as the little children"). Awakening is in the Two BEing One.

BUT.......... Ray being the goof that he is............. who knows what he was talking about. As I have said before, he reminds me of Ray Charles sitting at a piano keyboard with his eyes closed swaying back and forth humming away typing off into the ozone. Mindless {8->

Subject: Re: question

From: "Shar" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 06:25:54 -0700

Hi all,

Back again after a few days away. Then the hard drive crashed. Not even my computer this time.

Welcome Melody, Thanks for coming to share with us in the Looney Bin.

I have a question for everyone,

"If you were a flavor, what flavor would it be, and why?" What was the first word that popped into your mind when you read the question? This is for fun only, and yet fun can be revealing.......

Blessings

Subject: re: food and change (E.J.)

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:26:14 -0800

Thanks E.J....your suggestion of high protein (soy) and low carbs. sounds perfect to me. And the rest of what you said, I hear too. I will for the interest of saving speace, just say thankyou from the top and bottom of my heart :)

Subject: Food and changes

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:38:52 -0800

So how does the awakened individuals consider food....Myself, (not claiming to be awakened) since I quit smoking gained five pounds, which I recently lost...through hard work. The body at 57 does not metabolize the same as it did at 25...so consequently I must eat much smaller portions and exercise more. Now what is the big deal about being slim...I dunno know except I don't like how I feel and lets be honest, I don't like looking like the rolly polly gramma either...althoug of course thats what I am, for now. Now I suppose that I have to see through all this malarky...but then I do not want to end up being 200 bls. either if things keep on the way they were going so, here I am realizing that the days whene I ate whatever I wanted, and how much I wanted without gaining a pound are over...and what is, is of course what it is now.

grumpy jacquie

Subject: Food and Culture

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:28:00 -0800

I am still wondering about food. Some cultures take their time while eating...and eat just one course at a time, talking, visiting with others. They pay attention to the arrangement of foods, the colors, and the juxtaposition of foods...so interesting and lovely of course. Now look at the Japanese tea ceremony for instance...how each thing is noticed...how one holds the tea pot and the pouring of it, and nothing done without mindfulness...it seems to me that us Americans hurry too much, gobble without tasting and do not even see the beautiful colors of each food. Some cultures even say that certain foods are yin and other foods are yang and that it is always best to eat what is growing there in that particular season...now what grows in winter? Perhaps one fasts more in winter and notices even that the squirrles had stored something aside for winter...is the nut a winter food...who knows...at least for the squirrle it is. Now the chinese think that hot tea should be drank in the heat rather than the cold tea that we do for it helps the Chi...who knows ...does one even realize that the teeth that we eat with is so perfect in mastication and that chewing itself is an art just as painting a picture, perhaps...what say you ....oh silent ones.

Subject: Re: question

From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:13:39 -0800

Hi Jacquie,

Just for your enjoyment, try

http://www.emode.com/emode/tests

There is one called What's your flavour. It appears I am a pink grapefruit today.

> Tapioca, cause its my favorite flavor...but it must be the old fashioned > tapioca not the instant kind...

Yummmmmm, I too think Tapioca pudding rules... The tapioca doesn't have much flavour, but the cream pudding is comfort food. As Dr Phil says, food is a party in your mouth.

Have fun with the page,

Sharlene

Subject: Re: Food and changes

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:08:01 -0800

Just wanted to add that I am now 153 lbs...and am aiming to get down at least to 133 or so lbs. I am small boned so even that would be heavy.

Subject: Re: question

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:41:10 -0800

Tapioca, cause its my favorite flavor...but it must be the old fashioned tapioca not the instant kind...Its my favorate taste and I like it while its warm....now if I were to think that love feels good it would be like warm tapioca that my Mother use to make for us kids. love,

Subject: Re: Food and changes

From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:58:16 -0800

Food? I like food. Well, most of it anyway.

I have the opposite problem as you do, if either one is a problem. I weigh in at 108 and have for over 30 years. If I ever get sick, it is a problem as I lose even more.

It has appearred that one of my factors was and is this nickle allergy. Now I find my food limited, but I also find I can eat more of what agrees without side effects. So, in what I concidered a negative thing, has turned into a positive thing. The question of what to eat has left me, and I make the best out of the things I can have with no effects.

I was watching Dr.Phil the other day Tues, and he was talking about choices, diet etc. He says rather plainly, don't diet. Make choices. Find out what/why you eat to fulfill within yourself. We only are the way we are because our lifestyle supports it.,

Is there things in the cupboard that keep you over weight? Do you reward yourself with food. Do you self medicate with food? Etc. Food is a bad addiction to overcome because no matter what we do, we need to eat. The thing is to choose what we put into our bodies and how much. Taking responsibility for self, in all areas of our lives.

Food is not a reward, it is a necessary fuel. Why do we over dress it, use it, abuse it, blame it, everything we ingest is by choice.........

My thoughts anyway.

I will share my 10 minute soup with you, it's real easy.

1bag frozen vegetables of choice, or fresh if you like,

1 vegetarian chicken stock cube and 1 vegetable stock cube, or stock of your choice. (No Msg, no words you can't read.)

3 garlic cloves

aprox 6 cups water

1/2 package chow mein noodles of choice

1 pkg Tofu ground round (or chicken if not a vegan)

Both black and cayenne pepper, or piece of habenaro

Can add a shot of Tamari or soya sause

Heat until vegies are thawed, and noodles cooked. then add a couple of tablespoons of good oil. like Olive, or sesame,

About 10 minutes at best.

Fast, easy,no extra dishes. Lazy mans soup, no extra calories, no empty calories, filling, satisfying, and eat all you want.

Leave room for tapioca..lol

Blessings

Subject: Re: Food and changes

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:20:20 -0800

Sharlene wrote:

> Food? I like food. Well, most of it anyway.

me too....

> > > I have the opposite problem as you do, if either one is a problem. I weigh > in at 108 and have for over 30 years.

Yep, I use to weigh until 44 between 105 and 85...had more problems with being skinny than anything. Then The doctor said my Thyroid was too high and so medicated me and darn near destroyed the thyroid...brought it down low and now my metabolism is low. That sucks.

> > If I ever get sick, it is a problem as I lose even more.

so don't get sick :) tee hee...

> > > It has appearred that one of my factors was and is this nickle allergy. Now > I find my food limited, but I also find I can eat more of what agrees > without side effects. So, in what I concidered a negative thing, has turned > into a positive thing. The question of what to eat has left me, and I make > the best out of the things I can have with no effects.

sounds good...

> > > I was watching Dr.Phil the other day Tues, and he was talking about choices, > diet etc. He says rather plainly, don't diet. Make choices. Find out > what/why you eat to fulfill within yourself. We only are the way we are > because our lifestyle supports it.,

I can not go on the Internet, cause my browser is turned off...lack of memory in the computer to support browsing too. Now this person sounds interesing.

> > > Is there things in the cupboard that keep you over weight?

I got rid of all those foods...and I am loosing, but it comes off slowly...yet it is better to loose weight slowly they say, anyway.

> > Do you reward yourself with food. Do you self medicate with food? Etc. Food > is a bad addiction to overcome because no matter what we do, we need to eat. > The thing is to choose what we put into our bodies and how much.

Once a week, I can eat a food that is sweet or fattening...like fried potatoes.

> > Taking responsibility for self, in all areas of our lives.

Yep, I am. I have finally stopped gaining, and not using my age as a excuse, or lower metabolism either. If I must exercise more and eat sensibly, then I shall do it...like E.J. always says...just do it. Now last week I ate out of side, I rewarded myself for loosing the week before...now I can not do that either. I mostly must addopt that eating is different today for me than when I was younger. I do not think I am addicted to it, only that I cannot do the same things today, I use to.

> > > Food is not a reward, it is a necessary fuel. Why do we over dress it, use > it, abuse it, blame it, everything we ingest is by choice.........

I don't know...it is in the media all the time...overweight, low fat diets, heart attacks, diabetes, one gets paranoid these days cause all the commercials seem to be about food, medicine and health...I think I need to turn it off and just meditate...that is the perfect diet...not to listen to all this advertising, propaganda, and hype.

> > > My thoughts anyway. > > I will share my 10 minute soup with you, it's real easy.

I love your 10 minute soup...and will try it....thanks. Namaste, Jacquie

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