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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ March - Page 3 ~
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Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:04:35 GMT
Greetings Community,
Once some seeming problem is Truly Understood, Totally, 99% of the time we Realize/Recognize that there was no problem in the first place. That the seeming problem was simply a faulty perspective, a conditioned faulty perception. Thus, what action is there to take ? If you want to call such an Insight an action, so be it, but actually there would be no action taken. The so called "outcome" would be the Insight and the Realization/Recognition without any real action taken other than *stop*.
Addressing a problem in Sleeping modern day terms would be likened to tacking a sail boat. Such works in boating, but is little more than a temporary quick fix relative to the human condition. We are conditioned to tack or juggle our problems to stay in balance and carry on, but it winds up more of a repression/suppression than an actual *solution*. The indicator being that the world state of affairs are as miserable as they always have been.
Though Insight/Awakening is quite instantaneous, it is most gradual. Sort of Gradually Instantaneous, or Instantaneously Gradual {8-> And it never ends. It just keeps going..... and going..... and going..... Everything is most Awesome each day, each Moment.
Do not focus on the words, they are only tools so that we can communicate/associate and have no real importance other than that. That is the stumbling block of many well intentioned enthusiasts actually trying their very best to Understand/Awaken.
The intellect is a wondrous Tool to get us from point *a* to point *b*, but then the intellect must be let go and we are required THEN to Realize/Recognize/Understand BEing What-IS AS Present Moment Presence.
Sleeping, you would enjoy because there is something to enjoy and someone to enjoy it. Awakening, you would BE joy, thus you would not *know* it because you would also BE the enjoyment.
When you do enjoy, you are not Present AS the Moment because there is no Duality AS Present Moment Presence. The Talk is really not quite the same as the Walk, though many have grown to *think* so. And there is the Key. When you *think* your are, you are not. And when you are, you do not *think* so because you do not *thinking* about it. Why address an Illusion ? Why cling to Dualism ? Present Moment Presence is not Dualistic or Illusive.
Awakening is responding AS What-IS, AS What-IS. Nothing to respond to as there is no one to respond to it. Since Illusion is a mere mental projection via the contents we harbor in mind, "feelings/emotions" are not quite Real enough to elicit a response. Sleeping, Illusions are quite real to us in our head so naturally we react (and call it respond because it sounds better). Awakening, All is quite Clear thus we can only respond AS whatever the Present Moment we are Present AS.
Whether one is in a Deep state of Meditative Transcendence or cooking a meal or shopping for groceries or at a job working, one can very well BE precisely where they ARE and precisely what they are doing. Awakening, one IS Whatever-IS. THAT is "practical", yet what most propose is mere foolish Dualistic Illusion. If you are not Aware AS the Moment, why enjoy the Illusion that you are ?
Indeed we are not here to Suffer, but we are not here to "believe" either. And the "Divine Purpose" scenario is funny too. Simply put, we are here at this time to continue unfolding the manifested Evolution/Involution of form we ARE. Yet before we can do that we have to let go of the conditioned Baggage (contents in mind) we have acquired along the way. We are not here to Empty the mind, though to get on with what we are here for we have to Empty the mind of the conditioned programmed ideas and images and meanings that control and manipulate our thinking and behavior. Because all that Baggage IS the Cause of our Suffering here.
True ?
Subject: a kupple a kwestions...
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:45:50 -0800
mr light,
two questions in one: - "the world state of affairs are as miserable as they have always been" - if they have been miserable so far, will 'kali yuga' kompound that miserableness or merely feed the hand that 'bytes' it?...
& without getting 'shat' on, or 'whacked' - what IS 'kali yuga' eggsaktly?
an aktual 'time' or a 'state of mind'?
Subject: Re: a kupple a kwestions...
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:43:24 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->two questions in one: - "the world state of affairs are as miserable as they ->have always been" - if they have been miserable so far, will 'kali yuga' ->kompound that miserableness or merely feed the hand that 'bytes' it?...
Both. All positive Potentiality is being stifled and all negative Potentiality is given impetus. The Lamp oil is being consumed and not replenished thus the Lamp Light Dims and the Darkness pervades.
->& without getting 'shat' on, or 'whacked' - what IS 'kali yuga' eggsaktly?
A Day in the Life. A Dark Day. The Darkest of Dark Days. The disciples asked Jesus: "Tell us how our end shall be". Jesus said: "Have you then discovered the beginning, that you seek after the end ? For where the beginning is, there shall the end be. Blessed is he who shall stand in the beginning, and he shall know the end and shall not taste of death".
Subject: RE: a kupple a kwestions...
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:57:59 -0600
...and Jesus also said in Dialogue of the Saviour: He who doesn't stand in the darkness cannot see the light.
For those who ever wanted to study the stars it is obvious that the darker the place you are standing in the more detail you will see in the stars.
If a movie was just pure white light it would be boring. It is the darkness of the film that makes the pictures dance and become interesting.
Sometimes we don't appreciate spiritual illumination except for in contrast with the results of spiritual ignorance.
And dualism rears its ugly head once again, but it is the way that we think.
Subject: Re: a kupple a kwestions...
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:47:42 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->...and Jesus also said in Dialogue of the Saviour: ->He who doesn't stand in the darkness cannot see the light.
Indeed, we are IN the world yet must not be OF the world. Thus IN the Darkness yet not OF the Darkness. AS Darkness there is no Light, as Darkness is the absence of Light. Yet AS Light there is always Darkness where Light is not. Thus standing IN the Darkness all we have to do is BE Light rather than curse the Darkness we are IN.
->For those who ever wanted to study the stars it is obvious that the darker ->the place you are standing in the more detail you will see in the stars.
Yet those who tarry in the Darkness Fear the Light, as Light exposes that which is Hidden by Darkness. Indeed Fear neither for our True Nature IS Light, thus in it's UnVeiling then Darkness is no more. So Jesus was not speaking of the phenomenal sense of sight but rather our very state of BEing. Though in the literal sense, the senses do need circumstances manipulated to optimize their effectiveness.
->If a movie was just pure white light it would be boring. It is the darkness ->of the film that makes the pictures dance and become interesting.
What "movie" was Jesus talking about ?
->Sometimes we don't appreciate spiritual illumination except for in contrast ->with the results of spiritual ignorance.
Why contrast ? Why compare ? That which IS simply IS, as that which IS-NOT simply IS-NOT. And one can appreciate neither, as there can be no appreciation when it IS-NOT nor any appreciation when it IS because then one is BEing What-IS.
->And dualism rears its ugly head once again, but it is the way that we think.
Correct, it takes something to appreciate and someone to appreciate it. Thus AS What-IS Lightens the Darkness of Separation. Making the Two again One, as there can BE only One. So, it would seem, that when Dualism lends to the Darkness of controlled manipulated thinking that it would behoove us to Lighten the matter by letting go of Dualism. Unless, of course, we are just suicidal.
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:26:27 +0000
Hi EJ,
long-time-no-chat
you wrote...
"...the *positive thinking* genre is most honorable for a quick fix for an immediate problem. But is not as lasting..."
how true!
I often wonder how many people out there think that Awakening-Enlightenment requires a certain form of "positive" thought.
IF only the world acted in a truly "positive" manner - if only people were more compassionate - if only ALL the world's people were more loving - - THEN the context would exist where I could be Enlightened-Awakened! Isn't that pretty much the "recipe" that many hold in their head for Awakening-Enlightenment?
So they set out "to do their part" - they try to control their thoughts so they are "positive" - they try to love their neighbor - they strive to be non-judgemental - in short...they try to build a context where their Awakening-Enlightenment can exist.
THEY THINK POSITIVE!!!
Yet isn't the term "positive mental attitude" nothing more than a form of judgement?
"The early-bird gets the worm"
Most would consider that statement a "positive" affirmation...unless of course - you happen to be the worm!
Enlightenment-Awakening steps forth when you realize that 'you' are simultaneously BOTH "the bird" AND "the worm". Oneness.
Awakening/Enlightenment...where "what's so" is also "so what?!"
oren
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 05:14:09 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->long-time-no-chat
How did you figure that out ? These awesome revelations are too much for this simple boy.
->Enlightenment-Awakening steps forth when you realize ->that 'you' are simultaneously BOTH "the bird" AND "the ->worm". Oneness.
Rather, neither. Does the frog know that it is a frog ? Does the frog *think* the dragonfly is a dragonfly ? Though both exist to each other, yet not as frog or dragonfly, neither exist unto itself.
->Awakening/Enlightenment...where "what's so" is also "so ->what?!"
*Deep Bow* You do not frequent the Community much, but when you do you carry a pretty big stick. Odd thing about Awakening, we Seek to be Awakened and when we give up the Chase we ARE Awakening and we do not and can not *know* it.
Good to hear from you Dear Friend, you should come around more often. Sorry I did not get your message until now, as you tried to send it with an address you are not subscribed with so it wound up in the *unsubscribed mail* bin. That is remedied now however, you are now subscribed with both addresses {8->
Subject: RE: easter dinner
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:55:02 -0600
The irony of course is Mel Blanc having rabbits for Easter--the animator that made his fortune drawing Bugs Bunny :) Perhaps not everyone gets the joke.
What is it that makes the sacrificing of the symbol bypass our inherit realization that this is nuts? We obviously know that it is nuts to kill an evergreen tree, that symbolizes continued life in the winter of death, and bring it in the house with lights for Christmas. We know it is nuts. The Christian adoption of Easter celebrates the symbol for the influence of truth and compassion and unity of our interbeing in the state of having been incarnated and murdered and resurrected. Since the Mystery plays of Dionysus, centuries before Jesus, this myth of the divinity that falls down into depravity and suffers only to resurrect and return to a divine state somehow touches an illogical part of us and makes sense even though it is nuts. I think that it is because we are that divine being that fell from some higher state into the depravity of material form to suffer. It is we who discover how to resurrect ourselves from that state and rediscover our true home. And yes, somehow we do sacrifice the corpse of our abandoned experiences as a form of Easter dinner. We may even offer our own body and blood to those who want to follow us homeward.
Subject: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:27:54 -0600
We are greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines who have sold our souls to capitalism. There is no world peace as long as a small percentage of the world's population controls most of the capital. If Americans were willing to sacrifice their new cars and big televisions and fast computers and big houses so that the starving could be fed, the sick could get medicine, and the oppressed could get some money backing them up, then it would be a beautiful world for all. But, like I said, we are greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines who have sold our souls to capitalism. And not only that but we think we have the manifest destiny to rule the planet, and are shocked at the heathens around the world that call us the "great satan" and see us as being the major problem.
Stepping off of soapbox now.
Subject: Re: easter dinner
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:06:27 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->What is it that makes the sacrificing of the symbol bypass our inherit ->realization that this is nuts?
Is there some inherent value in the symbols of dogmatic conditionings/programs ? Or some value in clinging to either the conditioning/program or the symbol ? When we drop the hammer we keep pounding our foot with perhaps our foot will stop hurting.
-> I think that it is because we are that divine being that fell from ->some higher state into the depravity of material form to suffer. It is we ->who discover how to resurrect ourselves from that state and rediscover our ->true home.
Indeed, we cling to contradictory ritual/dogma in such absent hope that someone/something other than ourself will Save us. Yet the test of eons hence has borne out that "if we want it done Right we must do it ourself". Why study history if it does not Point us away from repeating errors ? Most spend their whole life reading the menu and never set down to Enjoy a meal.
Subject: Re: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:17:23 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->We are greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines who have sold our souls to ->capitalism. There is no world peace as long as a small percentage of the ->world's population controls most of the capital.
*Deep Bow* Indeed less than 1% of 1% of the world population own and/or control/operate everything. And they own/operate/control for personal ends. 1% of 1% is but a handful. And whether Enlightened or Sleeping, you will be effected in some way or many ways by this handful of people, who officiate this control/manipulation for ends totally selfish. To carry this huge operation out and have it continue endlessly they condition/program us to like it. Though we have no clue as to what we are conditioned/programmed to like. Enough is spent each year on research to better condition/program/control/manipulate the masses to feed the starving millions in the world.
-> If Americans were willing ->to sacrifice their new cars and big televisions and fast computers and big ->houses so that the starving could be fed, the sick could get medicine, and ->the oppressed could get some money backing them up, then it would be a ->beautiful world for all. But, like I said, we are greedy spoiled rotten ->mindless machines who have sold our souls to capitalism.
Well, though the majority of the 1% of 1% mentioned above reside in the USA only a very minor few are Americans. So it is not really Americans in general who are starving the world, though it would appear that way due to the fact that the majority of Americans do flaunt their possessions and financial well being and are very wasteful in their life style. Which goes back again to the massive conditioning/programming carried out and on America/Americans, and world wide for that matter. Without the conditioning perhaps there would not be the problem.
When so called *religious and social organizations* establish their programs to help the needy of the world, is there not a selfish organizational agenda at the foundation ? Is the aide antonymous ? Are not the officials of these organizations paid handsomely for their seeming righteous work ? Do they give of their own wealth or the wealth of those they collect from ? To blame business and/or capitalism alone would be misleading at best, and more of a Freudian avoidance response.
So it would seem that the Real problem is our conditioned thinking and behavior, and of course our conditioned/programmed Desire to condition/program/control/manipulate.
-> And not only that ->but we think we have the manifest destiny to rule the planet, and are ->shocked at the heathens around the world that call us the "great satan" and ->see us as being the major problem.
Does UM know you talk like this ? You are agreed with from here, as our own conditioned arrogance is part of the problem. That we *think* that we are above Cosmic Law because we are some *Chosen* lot is our Rationalization that no matter what we do or how we condition/program/control/manipulate/harm/destroy/kill we have a *reserved* mansion in Heaven waiting for us. The only thing manifest about human Destiny is that we are playing right into Kali Yuga's hand as she leads us down the isle to our Blazing Coffin. To *Rest* in Hell.
->Stepping off of soapbox now.
Thank you for getting on it {8->
Subject: Re: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:13:55 +0000
Hi Tom,
you wrote...
"...If Americans were willing to sacrifice their new cars and big televisions and fast computers and big houses..."
Question: Wouldn't that pretty much lead to TOTAL UNEMPLOYMENT in the United States?! And wouldn't that eventually lead to the disinigration of all our retained wealth?
And with all that retained wealth gone - how do we do the next part or what you propose...
"...so that the starving could be fed, the sick could get medicine, and the oppressed could get some money backing them up, then it would be a beautiful world for all..."
The point I'm trying to make is...the secret recipe for "a beautiful world for all" is certainly not poverty...either on an individual or global scale.
Proof? - I know several people that have access to generous amounts of food/medicine/money - yet...and by their own definition - they are not "happy". And I fully suspect that if the entire world had similar amounts of food/medicine/money - that these people still would not be one iota "happier".
The world is not - nor never was - "a beautiful place." The world just "is"...and any global ugliness a person may experience is merely an illusion of their mind - refusing to accept reality the way it is - and is not.
oren
Subject: Re: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: Dovesign420@cs.com
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:03:40 EST
A young woman went to her mother and told her about her life and how things were so hard for her. She did not know how she was going to make it and wanted to give up. She was tired of fighting and struggling. It seemed as one problem was solved a new one arose.
Her mother took her to the kitchen. She filled three pots with water and placed each on a high fire. Soon the pots came to a boil. In the first, she placed carrots, in the second, she placed eggs and in the last she placed ground coffee beans.
She let them sit and boil, without saying a word. In about twenty minutes she turned off the burners. She fished the carrots out and placed them in a bowl.
She pulled the eggs out and placed them in a bowl. Then she ladled the coffee out and placed it in a bowl.
Turning to her daughter, she asked, "Tell me, what do you see?"
"Carrots, eggs, and coffee," she replied.
She brought her closer and asked her to feel the carrots. She did and noted that they were soft.
She then asked her to take an egg and break it. After pulling off the shell, she observed the hard-boiled egg. Finally, she asked her to sip the coffee.
The daughter smiled as she tasted its rich aroma. The daughter then asked, "What does it mean, mother?"
Her mother explained that each of these objects had faced the same adversity...boiling water....but each reacted differently.
The carrot went in strong, hard and unrelenting. However, after being subjected to the boiling water, it softened and became weak. The egg had been fragile. Its thin outer shell had protected its liquid interior.
But, after sitting through the boiling water, its inside became hardened.
The ground coffee beans were unique, however. After they were in the boiling water........ they, had changed the water.
"Which are you?" she asked her daughter. " When adversity knocks on your door, how do you respond? Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?"
Think of this........ Which am I?........ Am I the carrot that seems strong, but with pain and adversity, do I wilt and become soft and lose my strength?
Am I the egg that starts with a malleable heart, but changes with the heat?
Did I have a fluid spirit, but after death, a breakup, a financial hardship or some other trial, have I become hardened and stiff? Does my shell look the same, but on the inside am I bitter and tough with a stiff spirit and a hardened heart?
Or am I like the coffee bean? ....... The bean actually changes the hot water, the very circumstance that brings the pain. When the water gets hot, it releases the fragrance and flavor. If you are like the bean, when things are at their worst, you get better and change the situation around you. When the hours are the darkest and trials are their greatest, do you elevate to another level?
How do YOU handle adversity?
Are you a CARROT, an EGG, or a COFFEE BEAN?....
I hope I think of this every morning with the first cup of coffee ........
Subject: Re: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 03:47:08 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->The point I'm trying to make is...the secret recipe ->for "a beautiful world for all" is certainly not ->poverty...either on an individual or global scale.
To whom ? Is not Home where we hang our hat ? Can we not Love that which we have when we do not have that which we Love ? Is not Beauty in the Eyes of the Beholder ? No matter where you go Dear Friend, there you are and it is the very Beginning of the rest of your Life. How can that not be most Beautiful even to us poor. What is poverty, but just another word for little to cling to ? How poor was Siddhartha as he Walked with his alms bowl ? And poor to whom ?
->Proof? - I know several people that have access to ->generous amounts of food/medicine/money - yet...and by ->their own definition - they are not "happy". And I ->fully suspect that if the entire world had similar ->amounts of food/medicine/money - that these people still ->would not be one iota "happier".
Indeed wealth seems to be at the root of our ills, though not the root of our ills. The Root or Cause of our ills is the clinging to the wealth, the conditioned notions we harbor about wealth. And the best way that wealth could Help those without wealth is offering Help that would allow the Helpless/Wealthless to Help themselves. So, as usual {8->, there is much agreement here.
->The world is not - nor never was - "a beautiful place."
Au contraire Wonderful Friend, the world is a most awesome and wondrous occurrence AS it Truly IS, phenomenally speaking. When we scrape away What-ISNOT the glorious What-IS is spellbinding, likened perhaps to the new born before defiled by conditioned ideal and images and notions of all sorts. Ah but once we have been *taught*, once we have *learned*, the ways of our forbearers the world loses it's Wonder. And in our acquired cynical *perception*, Veiled by our Pain of Suffering, the world is seen as a dog eat dog battlefield of Conquest and selfishness and corruption.
->The world just "is"...and any global ugliness a person ->may experience is merely an illusion of their mind - ->refusing to accept reality the way it is - and is not.
Well... True... yet Reality, AS it Truly IS, IS the most Beautiful Direct Experience we pitiful Sleeping humans can ever hope for. Though both ugliness and beauty are but mental contrivances, when we ARE Beauty there is no mental contrivances of ugliness for All IS Beauty. For what is ugliness but where Beauty is not. Thus when we ARE Beauty there can be no ugliness, no matter who or where we ARE or what me may have or not have. It is a state of BEing whatever it is we ARE. So again, as usual {8->, there is agreement.
Subject: Re: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:50:50 -0800
greedy spoiled rotten mindless machinescommuniteers,
i konkur with u, mr parkes, but from ur spleen venting on the soapbox might i say that words like 'if' and 'should' are in reality not really words at all but merely 'kaution signs' at a place where Work is being done...
One does or doesn't, One is or One is knot - betwixt these two polarities, All else is akin to being in the grip of strange thoughts...
& it may Be that these thoughts are from Home...
treasure them for their 'why's' but walk cautiously thru the Field - it is 'land-mind' more than u may know...
Subject: Re: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:03:17 GMT
Greetings Susan, you wrote: ->How do YOU handle adversity? -> ->Are you a CARROT, an EGG, or a COFFEE BEAN?.... -> ->I hope I think of this every morning with the first cup of coffee ........
*Deep Bow* You can adjust your attitude. And actually has nothing to do with past, education, money, circumstances, failures, successes, what other people think or say or do.
Many factors, some known and some not know to us, influence our attitude when we first wake up in the morning (or evening, whichever the case may be) thus our attitude varies from wake up to wake up. So each morning we may very well have to go through an Attitude Adjustment before Embracing the day. Our very attitudes are controlled and manipulated by the contents we harbor in our mind, thus the only consistent attitude would be with an Empty mind. The so called attitude of an Empty mind is to Embrace the day AS our True Nature of Love/Compassion/Awareness/Understanding. This we can not *have* but rather ARE.
All of Life IS one's Reactions or one's Responses to What-IS. Some times we are the base ball and some times we are the bat, but it does not really matter when we ARE the Home Run. So, when you ARE the True Nature you ARE attitude is not even a consideration because you would never React to anything, adverse or otherwise.
Thank you for joining in Dear Friend, with your awesome story.
Subject: Re: easter dinner
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:39:14 -0800
tom,
> What is it that makes the sacrificing of the symbol bypass our inherent realization that this is nuts? We obviously know that it is nuts to kill an evergreen tree, that symbolizes continued life in the winter of death, and bring it in the house with lights for Christmas. We know it is nuts...<
yet sum of us still do it... do u?...
'eye' don't - i dress mannequins in shop windows... i may not know what 'bread' is but i know which side it's buttered on... i work with what i have... as Dionysus did in his time - i am Dionysus, in a sense, but my 'own-ly' Fall has been (bin) into Forgetfulness... into Sleep...
> Since the Mystery plays of Dionysus, centuries before Jesus, this myth of the divinity that falls down into depravity and suffers only to resurrect and return to a divine state somehow touches an illogical part of us and makes sense even though it is nuts.<
if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck & talks like a duck, i wonder what it kan be? - an Easter Bunny???
>I think that it is because we are that divine being that fell from some higher state into the depravity of material form to suffer.<
dostoevsky sed this more than a century ago...
> It is we who discover how to resurrect ourselves from that state and rediscover our true home. And yes, somehow we do sacrifice the corpse of our abandoned experiences as a form of Easter dinner. We may even offer our own body and blood to those who want to follow us homeward.<
touche, tom, are u into some rabbit come sunday or do u want to play skrabble on friday, under the kross???
Subject: Re: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: "Sharlene" <sharlenelindstrom@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:54:36 -0800
greedy spoiled rotten mindless machinesHi Tom, You wrote; We are greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines who have sold our souls to capitalism. If Americans were willing to sacrifice their new cars and big televisions and fast computers and big houses so that the starving could be fed, the sick could get medicine, and the oppressed could get some money backing them up, then it would be a beautiful world for all.
Shar: Between all my computer problems and getting everything running again, working 12 hour days and half way through my ten day babysitting stint, time is limited. lol
It does appear though that I never recieved a few emails but which ones are beyond me.
Just for the sake of interest, I know what you are sying here, and yet, what would really change?And who is to say that things should change? If we live with choice as an illusion, then everything is going as it should, and only our perspective of all has to change. That is all we can change, ourselves.
I was watching faithfully, The Dr Phil, changing relationship ten week thing on Oprah. And it was all about healing and change. The one excercise that relly struck home for me was...
In a room of 20 people, you were given medicine for 8, and you had to go around to each person and either give them medicine or not. The other choice was to keep it for yourself. How can one stand in front of someone and say "I have no medicine for you" How does one choose? It's simple, stay open to what is and listen to the inner voice telling you what you will do. If one feels they must try and feed the world, then that's what they will do. If one want to collect blankets for a freezing world, then they will do that also. We can not tell a nation or a world, how things should be or how we would like to see things. Those involved are doing what they are wired to do, and that is none of our business. We can not judge what another does just because it is something we don't do.
But then, that is only my notion about the whole thing....lol
Subject: Re: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:54:12 +0000
Hi EJ,
Read what I wrote again...
"...the secret recipe for "a beautiful world for all" is certainly not poverty...either on an individual or global scale."
You ask..."Is not Beauty in the Eyes of the Beholder?"
Yes - I agree - in the SINGULAR sense...but there is NO universal recipe - Do you know what makes me happy? - No - and if there were global recipe - wealth/poverty would not not be one of the ingredients.
Also - as you state - the "beauty" exists in the EYES - i.e...one's mind...NOT in the world...a subtle but important difference...the world just "is". "Beautiful" is a subjective call that one makes - just another part of the what you call "conditioning"...it's just on the opposite end of "ugly" spectrum....but nonetheless a "judgement call".
Again - as I stated in an earlier post - What the "early bird" experiences as beautiful may not be the same experience of the worm he is about to eat.
Here we are again EJ - like two bald men fighting over a comb. <G> ...
you wrote..."...the world is a most awesome and wondrous occurrence AS it Truly IS,..."
NO - the world is NOT a beautiful place - the world just "is" - but we certainly MAY 'choose' to have an experience of it that we label as "beautiful".
The REAL underlying point to my original post was...
People often fall into the "trap" of thinking that the world MUST "be" a certain way before they can realize happiness - contentment - awakening - enlightenment.
Yet the "faults" we experience are merely that - OUR experiences. The world "internalized". The universe - reality - is "perfect" just the way "it is" - as it can "be" no other way. It always was - always is - and always will be. It's our experience that requires the "tweaking".
Subject: world hunger
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:28:52 +0000
I wanted to take a moment to clear up a misconception...
Many many moons ago...I worked with a couple of different groups with the goal of ending world hunger, so I know first hand that their primary "problem" wasn't what most would first believe.
Most people see world hunger as a food shortage problem. Attitude: - "We in America have sooo much of EVERYTHING - while many in the third-world do not. So let's surrender some of what we have and feed the world."
If only the real problem were that simple.
#1 Fallacy - There's not enough food to go around.
Not true. There's PLENTY of food available. The REAL problem is the governments and the "powers that be" in the starving nations of the world. They use food - starvation - as a WEAPON, a means to control their populus. Afganistan and the Taliban is/was a perfect and recent example...
"Do as we say - believe what we believe - or you will go hungry."
If you doubt this - think of any nation where hunger dominates - and then look at their repressive government.
The point is - what's on your plate has little or nothing to do with what's on theirs. World hunger is a political problem rather than a supply/demand issue.
Subject: Re: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:22:43 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->You ask..."Is not Beauty in the Eyes of the Beholder?" -> ->Yes - I agree - in the SINGULAR sense...but there is NO ->universal recipe - Do you know what makes me happy? - ->Also - as you state - the "beauty" exists in the EYES - ->i.e...one's mind...NOT in the world...a subtle but ->important difference...the world just "is". "Beautiful" ->a "judgement call".
Reaction is most Blinding, as the Eyes are not the eyes. It is a state of BEing Dear Friend, and not a state of seeing.
->you wrote..."...the world is a most awesome and ->wondrous occurrence AS it Truly IS,..." -> ->NO - the world is NOT a beautiful place - the world ->just "is" - but we certainly MAY 'choose' to have an ->experience of it that we label as "beautiful".
Your *beauty* is in the *seeing*, yet the Pointing to *the world is a most awesome and wondrous occurrence AS it Truly IS* is a state of BEing. It would be erroneous to mistake one for the other.
->The REAL underlying point to my original post was... -> ->People often fall into the "trap" of thinking that the ->world MUST "be" a certain way before they can realize ->happiness - contentment - awakening - enlightenment.
This is True, they fall into this "trap" due to the conditioned contents they harbor in mind. A self-set trap they snare themselves with. Likewise, the self-set Dualistic Separation that there is someone to "realize happiness - contentment - awakening - enlightenment" when actually there is only BEing "happiness - contentment - awakening - enlightenment". Sleeping is a matter of conditioned perception rather than unconditioned BEing.
->Yet the "faults" we experience are merely that - OUR ->experiences. The world "internalized". The universe - ->reality - is "perfect" just the way "it is" - as it ->can "be" no other way. It always was - always is - and ->always will be. It's our experience that requires ->the "tweaking".
The "it is not broken so don't fix it" scenario is True IF it has never been tampered with (defiled). The Moment we distorted ourselves by adding the conditioned contents we cling to so dearly, established the need to Empty out all the conditioned contents (defilements). Indeed, Whatever-IS, AS it Truly IS without any added defilements, IS Perfect/Wondrous/Awesome/Beautiful/Love/Compassion/Empathy/Awareness though not Realized/Recognized when Sleeping. Yet What-ISNOT, with all the added conditioned defilements is other than Perfect/Wondrous/Awesome/Beautiful/Love/Compassion/Empathy/Awareness thus in need of Repair. So to most the "it is not broken so don't fix it" scenario lends to the Rationalization for not Emptying the conditioned contents we hide in the attic. Though an Arduous and Painful undertaking, the only Way that all the king's horses and all the king's men will be able to put Humpty Dumpty back together again ("make the Two again One").
Subject: Re: world hunger
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:38:55 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->If you doubt this - think of any nation where hunger ->dominates - and then look at their repressive ->government.
Do you mean like India, with it's millions starving to death every year ? Millions, per year ! A little tid-bit that you may not be aware of is that India's government is more of a Democracy than the USA. This is just to say that you are blaming only the superficial, as you say everyone else is. When you get around to pointing the finger at the Real culprit you will find none other than the Grand Trickster, the conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions of all sorts. When we get rid of the Grand Trickster we will not have many problems, world hunger or otherwise. For when the mind is Empty of the conditioned contents we harbor therein so dearly there is not "my share" and "your share" but rather only Sharing.
Subject: RE: world hunger
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:03:09 -0600
It all gets back to greed, to desire. It starts off simple. You find stuff that you want and you grab it, then you build your life around needing it, then you build a culture around you to protect you having it. Whether it be land or oil or gold or food supplies or any other craved thing, the result is the same. Violence has to protect the ownership. You have to lock your doors so thieves don't steal your stuff. Then it is down to who you consider to be one of you and who you consider to be one of them. This is the Taliban issue, the Israeli issue, the Palestinian issue, the IRA issue, and the issue of every other political faction that ever religiously defined an us as opposed to them. Of course they don't get the stuff. We protect our stuff from them. It all gets back to greed, to desire.
Subject: RE: greedy spoiled rotten mindless machines
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:43:39 -0600
I was just reading last night (synchronicity once again, how does that keep happening?) in the Connected Discourses where Buddha was teaching about the stuff that drives us and forms our worlds. I can't remember it verbatim but it goes something like: Light is only seen from the contrast it makes to darkness. Beauty is only seen from the contrast it makes to disarray. Good will is only seen from the contrast it makes to ill will. Active forces have to be countered with active forces. If you are driven by quests for violence, you have to send yourself on a quest for nonviolence. If you are driven by quests for greed, you have to send yourself on a quest for charity. Perhaps in noting that your world is "not a beautiful place" you will gain the quest to do something about it. The fact that it is not possible is beside the point. Oh, that bodhisattva vow of wanting to save what--every sentient being, give me a break--can't be done--is not gonna happen!----but just the instigation of the quest within each of us transforms us, and by transforming us our perception of the world around us changes. We don't have to give in to how we have been conditioned to view the world around us. This is the main message that Jesus taught. If someone hits you, you are conditioned to hit back, but you can select to turn your face away from violence. If someone steals from you, you are conditioned to call the cops, but you can select to give them charity instead. If someone forces you to go a mile, you are conditioned to feel resentful, but you can select to go that extra mile instead. You face the battlefields and crucifixions of life, conditioned to despair and giving up. The real message of Jesus at Easter is that even if they catch you and stop you and silence you and kill you--that is not the end of you, that is not the end of the quest you are on, not the end of the inspiration you gave. Reminds me once again of Krishna talking to Arjuna as he was facing a world that didn't seem like a beautiful place to him either, and the advice given was to keep it in perspective--the eternal part of you cannot kill and cannot die, so keep this in mind and do the best you can with your duty in life.
Wow, Buddha and Christ and Krishna in one post. What would United Methodist Church think? How liberal are they? I dunno, I'm just their computer programmer geek ;-)
Subject: Re: world hunger
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:00:49 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->It all gets back to greed, to desire.
Why is there greed and Desire ? Do we carry them with us from incarnation to incarnation ? Are they inherent in manifest form ? Or are they part of the conditioned Baggage we carry around with us while in any given incarnation ? If the Baggage is the problem, then why not drop off the Baggage ? Why do we hide this Baggage ? Why do we not acknowledge that it is the Causes of our Suffering ? Some even call it added Baggage, or even call it conditionings, in a whisper through clenched teeth. But even at that, Talking the Talk is not Walking the Walk. Pointing out the Folly of our Blindness is not the same as Seeing. Will blame cure world hunger ? Or will doing what must be done about what is to blame ? The world is engaged in a global avoidance response to hunger, and has been since time immemerable. So starving continues. Taking from one to give to another is a band aide at best. So it is not a matter of a new criteria for the balance of wealth, but rather the annihilation of the conditioned perception of wealth. Indeed the annihilation of toxic conditionings would bring about much relief to many world ailments, world hunger only being one of them.
Subject: Let's Not Blow It
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:30:12 GMT
Public Service Announcement By Homer Groening (1967):
"There are millions of years in the past There are millions of years ahead of us And here we are Right in the middle
"Then there's space There are miles and miles of space in all directions And here we are Right in the middle "This is a big deal Being in the middle of time and space It sort of makes your eyes water
"We'd never find this moment again In a million years This is our world Let's not blow it!"
Subject: re: world hunger
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:30:01 -0800
ej et communitears,
"Pointing out the Folly of our Blindness is not the same as Seeing. Will blame cure world hunger ? Or will doing what must be done about what is to blame ? The world is engaged in a global avoidance response to hunger, and has been since time immemerable. So starving continues."
this is most excellent, ray - the square of the metaphor...
one question: u say: 'the world is engaged in a global avoidance response to hunger,...'
i concur & say that we starve while we eat while others eat while they're starving... wiles... from u know who...
then u continu with: '... and has been since time immemerable'...
this i don't know about, ray, - have we 'always' hungered or only from the time 'immemerable'... prior to that, were we ever full - & i use that word in the context of 'were we ever content with what we have & what we are' & if not, might i list 'hunger' as an 'element' in the elemental number & charge table that hangs in every classrhume & tweaks each & every 'state' into existence?...
were we ever at Home or are we there still now & only shaded by the synaptic collapsables that the trickster flogs at the fair???
can the integrity of humanity be as flawed as it appears to me, or is it merely these kalaidescopic lenses that dr u know who prescribed for me...
furthermore, mssrs light & light & light upon light,
might i have a reindeer for my christmas meal?... digesting a 'clause' would be cannabalistic, thimk u knot?
for a birthday meal, the leg of the 'lamp' would suit me fine... i read these nights, under the sheets, with a klip on lite that grips the spine of the Book...
au revoir, phillipe soupault
Subject: Re: world hunger
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:10:19 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->PSS - I'll now give up the soapbox now about this ->issue. It's just that I donated considerable volunteer ->time to the World Hunger Project back in the 80's, and ->have retained a bit of passion about it.
Thank you for the information, which indicates that these well meaning volunteers and organization are ineffectual at best. Which would, it would seem, make one wonder whether these well meaning intentions are Clearly looking at the Real problem. When we peddle our bike for a long while without getting anywhere perhaps we should take a look at our bike. Most of the time we stand in our own Way, otherwise there would be nothing in our Way.
Subject: Re: world hunger
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:25:17 -0500
Hi,
Your %age statics about India seem to way out of line. What is your source? Or is it the so-called proganda Or is it the prejudice ...nothing good about India should be highlighted anyway? Where are you coming from?
Hope you get the correct picture to correct the problem!!!
Peace out.....!!
Subject: true natures & such
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:29:56 -0800
much is made of our 'true nature' but i wonder if we Kan be True & in our Truth, if we kan Know nature... kan the eye see it's self? kan the Truth be any more or less than WhatIs?? Can anything 'other' than truth, BE?
my true nature says it is an impossibility... what can possibly BE if it ISN'T?
chimeras? the impressions on the screen when the lights go out? the bellbouy with the pullman cap extending his palm to your baggage?
what can be realler than 'REALITY' it's SELF
the nature of the Moment two goldfish circling themselves the face of the moon full & wan in a moment of reflection...
I AM inside my Cell-f all the time & still i never get to greet me...
from whence issueth this enscorcelment?
shadowboxing in a ring on L5, lyndon la rouche from the breton woods side of the lake
Subject: Re: world hunger
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 06:08:24 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->one question: ->u say: 'the world is engaged in a global avoidance response to hunger,...' -> ->i concur & say that we starve while we eat while others eat while they're ->starving... wiles... from u know who...
Those who eat of the flesh starve of the flesh.
->then u continu with: '... and has been since time immemerable'... -> ->this i don't know about, ray, - have we 'always' hungered or only from the ->time 'immemerable'... prior to that, were we ever full - & i use that word ->in the context of 'were we ever content with what we have & what we are' & ->if not, might i list 'hunger' as an 'element' in the elemental number & ->charge table that hangs in every classrhume & tweaks each & every 'state' ->into existence?...
Time immemerable is not remembered, it is *since* then that we have been working for the Grand Trickster thus Fear What-IS and avoid it at all Costs. Before then, as at Present, we are *full of it* thus quite content at either time. Both Nothing and Ignorance is Bliss, though of a different order. Indeed, even before the beginning there was/is a certain Hunger as the Drive or Force that is Change. Thus Change is a constant. It is the conditioned contents in mind that we cling to that this Hunger is misinterpreted as Desire. So do not mistake hunger for Hunger. Who said the periodic table was complete ? If you look closely at the chart there is obviously built in areas for Growth/Expansion. Yet do not get too close to the chart, it might be the nose that gets tweaked.
->were we ever at Home ->or are we there still now & only shaded by the synaptic collapsables that ->the trickster flogs at the fair???
No matter where we go there we are, so we hang our hat and lay back in the Lazyboy with a pomegranate and an RC Cola in hand and say "home sweet home".
->can the integrity of humanity be as flawed as it appears to me, ->or is it merely these kalaidescopic lenses that dr u know who prescribed for ->me...
Perhaps the kaleidoscope glasses have slipped and you have caught a glimpse of Reality, for indeed greater humanity has become conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons (a major flaw).
->furthermore, mssrs light & light & light upon light,
Indeed Light is all there IS, though Disturbing and Painful when trying your Sleep.
->might i have a reindeer for my christmas meal?... ->digesting a 'clause' would be cannabalistic, thimk u knot?
"Thou shalt not kill". You must skip a Kingdom for your sustenance.
Subject: Re: true natures & such
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:32:53 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->much is made of our 'true nature' but i wonder if we Kan be True & in our ->Truth, if we kan Know nature... kan the eye see it's self? kan the Truth ->be any more or less than WhatIs?? Can anything 'other' than truth, BE?
Though we refer to "our" True Nature, it is actually not *our's* but rather the True Nature of All that IS. We can BE True IF we would not slink around in a conditioned Veil. But it would not be "our" Truth, for Truth can not be possessed or owned by anyone. And in order to BE that True Nature we must Empty the mind of all of the *knowns* so we can not "know" Truth or True Nature any more than we can "see" it or hear it or touch it. Truth indeed IS What-IS, which can not be Realized/Recognized because we slink around in a conditioned Veil harboring What-ISNOT. Indeed Dear Friend, Truth/Reality is all there IS yet can not be Realized/Recognized because we slink around in a conditioned Veil harboring some seeming personal truth/reality.
->my true nature says it is an impossibility... what can possibly BE if it ->ISN'T?
It is an "impossibility" while we Sleep, slinking around in a conditioned Veil harboring some seeming personal truth/reality which ISNOT.
->chimeras? the impressions on the screen when the lights go out?
Sleeping, the lights are on but nobody is home.
->what can be realler than 'REALITY' it's SELF
Nothing, but as long as we slink around in a conditioned Veil harboring some seeming personal truth/reality we can never Realize/Recognize Truth/Reality. We are conditioned to *think* that our Illusions are Reality, so we discount Reality AS it Truly IS.
->I AM inside my Cell-f all the time ->& still i never get to greet me...
Who is "I" ? Where is "inside" ? You are separate even from yourself ? I AM not there, not here, not this, not that. Can you help a fish find the water ?
->from whence issueth this enscorcelment?
It can not be *known*.
->shadowboxing in a ring on L5,
Would it not be easier to shine a flashlight on the Shadow to make it disappear ?
->lyndon la rouche ->from the breton woods side of the lake
No wonder ! Cross over to the other Shore. And you have to take a Quantum Leap because you can not cross over the Grand Canyon by little steps {8-|
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